The Catholic Church is definitely not to blame for this!

[Berzerker]

I said if we are seriously concerned about providing a Christian burial, then yes, this would be the response. And yes - this place is closed down now, Berz. Why not the clinics?

So you suggested closing an institution based on how it disposes of corpses, not me... Why do you insist on putting words in other people's mouths?

Sure. Why isn't it?

People do and they do it without the Catholic Church pontificating about helping the poor while skimming billions from the masses

Most of them receive public funds, Berz. So your money is going to them.

And?

[Ben Kenobi]

You're a libertarian. It doesn't bother you that your money is funding abortion?

while skimming billions from the masses

As opposed to the government? Maybe we should ask Rand what she thinks of government 'charity'.

Why do you insist on putting words in other people's mouths?

Why are you so hostile to Catholicism? What did it ever do to you?

[AAAAAAAAH!]

Ben Kenobi doesn't care about a mass graveyard of babies. Truly sickening.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben Kenobi doesn't care about a mass graveyard of babies. Truly sickening.

More like Ben Kenobi would love a world where this wasn't happening everyday.

[molly bloom]

I find the hypocrisy quite telling.

So do I.

Every sperm is sacred, but not every child- either of the detainees of the Magdalene laundries or those taken from opponents of the Junta in Argentina. In both cases the Roman Catholic organisations in each country facilitated the transfer of children to families not their own.

How very 'family' orientated- just not the birth mother or natural family orientated.

[molly bloom]

Like I said, the Catholic church doesn't do this anymore.

I see. So you're suggesting that the Roman Catholic Church, its hierarchy, the Vatican and this particular order of nuns were not aware of ethics and morals even at that stage in the 20th Century ?

The mind boggles.

[molly bloom]

Is this your final answer?

No, I think he needs to phone a friend (if he still has one), ask the audience (reading his posts makes me sometimes feel eerily like the people who paid to see the inmates at Bedlam hospital in the 18th Century), or go 50:50.

[Berzerker]

You're a libertarian. It doesn't bother you that your money is funding abortion?

I pay for all sorts of stuff that bothers me

As opposed to the government? Maybe we should ask Rand what she thinks of government 'charity'.

I like giving to charity, its a selfish endeavor

Why are you so hostile to Catholicism? What did it ever do to you?

Made me go to catechism

[Ben Kenobi]

I like giving to charity, its a selfish endeavor

So you don't believe in altruism at all?

Made me go to catechism

Ahh. That actually explains quite a bit. I wish I had been made to go when I was younger.

[Ben Kenobi]

Every sperm is sacred, but not every child- either of the detainees of the Magdalene laundries or those taken from opponents of the Junta in Argentina. In both cases the Roman Catholic organisations in each country facilitated the transfer of children to families not their own.

That 14 thousand children were saved as opposed to zero is significant.

I see. So you're suggesting that the Roman Catholic Church, its hierarchy, the Vatican and this particular order of nuns were not aware of ethics and morals even at that stage in the 20th Century ?

I'm suggesting that while there were superior alternatives (Christian burial) of the children, that in essence their work saved the lives of many children who would have otherwise died. Could they have done better? Sure. But that doesn't make their mission in and of itself wrong.

the people who paid to see the inmates at Bedlam hospital in the 18th Century), or go 50:50.

I think our wise and enlightened regime which states that you can be outside and free to live in ditches as preferable to an asylum is mistaken and wrong.

[molly bloom]

That 14 thousand children were saved as opposed to zero is significant.

.

Saved ? Are you talking about at the cost of their parents' lives ? Oh, I see, they'd done their job- made little future soldiers for the Church.

Could they have done better? Sure.

No sheeit, Sherlock.

I think our wise and enlightened regime which states that you can be outside and free to live in ditches as preferable to an asylum is mistaken and wrong.

So I if a person such as Thoreau desires to go to live on his own in a wilderness, your kind of theocratic dictatorship would send him to a religious order's slave pit instead ?


Oh Sister Bendy, why do you hate freedom so ?

[kentonio]

It's pretty ironic that these kids were apparently 'saved' when the only reason most of them were there was because of the horrific culture of guilt that forced single mothers to give away their children to avoid familial shame, all caused by the church in the first place.

[Ben Kenobi]

Saved ? Are you talking about at the cost of their parents' lives ? Oh, I see, they'd done their job- made little future soldiers for the Church.

Christ, moron. They were cared and looked after by the Catholic church. For years.

So I if a person such as Thoreau desires to go to live on his own in a wilderness, your kind of theocratic dictatorship would send him to a religious order's slave pit instead ?

Yes, because Thoreau is representative of the average homeless person cast out of an institution.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's pretty ironic that these kids were apparently 'saved' when the only reason most of them were there was because of the horrific culture of guilt that forced single mothers to give away their children to avoid familial shame, all caused by the church in the first place.

Today they'd have been cast into a rubbish bin in the back of Gosnell's clinic. This is progress?

[Elok]

It's pretty ironic that these kids were apparently 'saved' when the only reason most of them were there was because of the horrific culture of guilt that forced single mothers to give away their children to avoid familial shame, all caused by the church in the first place.

I don't doubt that the Irish Church of the time had its repellent aspects--it has a foul reputation which I assume is at least partly earned, though I don't know the details--but let's not act as though these people were simply brainless idiots who followed whatever the Church taught them without question. After all, they were quite happy to ignore the "no ****ing out of wedlock" part (in very large numbers, it seems) because that rule went against what they wanted to do.

While they went along with the shaming, I suspect, for the opposite reason; these were brutal times, economically, no? Children without fathers are a heavy burden, then as now. We have a purely secular safety net, in the US, but we treat it somewhat like they did in Ireland: we throw them at the system, and then piss on them if they have the nerve to come out of their hole and bother us. You know, those crackheads and white trash and their foodstamps? **** them, the freeloaders!