The Catholic Church is definitely not to blame for this!

[Sava]

I'm Lutheran. I assumed it was obvious to everyone!

Half my family is Lutheran (on my dad's side). Is the "obviousness" due to the avatar?

Lutherans are fine, but they are a little weird. One Christmas (the 25th, not Jan 7th) we sang Happy Birthday to Jesus. This was before Full Metal Jacket.

I thought everyone had flipped their lid.

[Sava]

I mean, I'm pretty sure I talked about my gay pastor...

Oooooh, I see why you'd be confused now

I wonder what other important life facts about other people I have completely wrong.

[Sava]

Every life is precious... until it leaves the womb.

I hate it when my trolls are true.

A Texas woman was forced to give birth alone in her solitary jail cell, resulting in the death of her newborn baby. According to a federal lawsuit filed this week, Nicole Guerrero says that “Wichita County denied (her) access to reasonable medical care … ignored her obvious signs of labor and constant requests for medical assistance, failed to conduct a physical examination … when she began to display obvious signs of labor, left (her) unattended in a solitary cell while she was obviously in labor, failed to transport (her) to the hospital for safe delivery, which ultimately caused (her) to deliver her baby alone in the solitary cell, and resulted in (her) suffering severe and likely permanent, physical and psychological injuries.”

Wichita County is refusing official comment about the case, saying: “We are prohibited (from talking) about pending litigation in Texas because we are representing the county in this case,” according to Wichita County District Attorney Maureen Shelton.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/05/jailed-woman-forced-to-give-birth-in-solitary-confinement-baby-dies-in-cell/

But hey, she got arrested for a non-violent drug possession charge. That forfeits the life of her baby.

Texas

[Imran Siddiqui]

Half my family is Lutheran (on my dad's side). Is the "obviousness" due to the avatar?

Lutherans are fine, but they are a little weird. One Christmas (the 25th, not Jan 7th) we sang Happy Birthday to Jesus. This was before Full Metal Jacket.

I thought everyone had flipped their lid.

The obviousness due to I talk about it on occasion .

Which kind of Lutherans, btw. I'm ELCA (the liberal ones). Missouri-Synod are basically fundies (they don't even allow female pastors - some fundy churches at least allow for that) and Wisconsin-Synod are like uber-fundies.

And yes, that Happy Birthday to Jesus thing sounds ghastly. I'll take my Lutheranism high-church please.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I hate it when my trolls are true.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/05/jailed-woman-forced-to-give-birth-in-solitary-confinement-baby-dies-in-cell/

But hey, she got arrested for a non-violent drug possession charge. That forfeits the life of her baby.

Texas

I think Catholic teaching that not only is unborn life sacred, but also after they are born, and thus there is a moral obligation to help provide for care is a noble one (why do you think there are so many Catholics that vote Democratic in the US?). However, we rarely see it enacted.

[Sava]

I think Catholic teaching that not only is unborn life sacred, but also after they are born, and thus there is a moral obligation to help provide for care is a noble one (why do you think there are so many Catholics that vote Democratic in the US?). However, we rarely see it enacted.

(Some) Catholics would not be the first people to have a severe misunderstanding of their own faith.

[Sava]

The obviousness due to I talk about it on occasion .

Which kind of Lutherans, btw. I'm ELCA (the liberal ones). Missouri-Synod are basically fundies (they don't even allow female pastors - some fundy churches at least allow for that) and Wisconsin-Synod are like uber-fundies.

And yes, that Happy Birthday to Jesus thing sounds ghastly. I'll take my Lutheranism high-church please.

When did you convert?

The word "Lutheran" only appears 3 times on Apolyton in the last six years.

edit: for some reason, restricting the search by date only offers those 3 results despite more than 3 appearing within the time frame without the date range added. Weird.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lutheran+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fapolyton.net%2Fshowthread.php&safe=off&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A6%2F5%2F2008%2Ccd_max%3A6%2F5%2F2014&tbm=

There are 429 total instances of "Lutheran" being used in Apolyton's history. If google is to be believed.

I don't know what kind of Lutherans they are. Liberal. Weird. WASPY. But nice

I didn't even know there were different kinds of Lutherans. My dad was non-religious. He converted to Orthodoxy before he died so he could be properly buried next to my mom's parents.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Apolyton tends to be strange with searching. I tried to find my conversion story - which led to Ben believing, at least for that day, that I was truly a Christian, but, for the life of me, I can't find it.

I became a Christian back in 2009. I became a Lutheran in.... 2011ish?

And yeah... there are liberal and conservative Lutherans and, being Lutheran, they split from each other a while back . The two main ones are the ELCA and LCMS (Missouri Synod). ELCA has like 6 million members and LCMS has like 5 million. LCMS are Biblical inerrantists, don't allow female preachers, are super against the gays (they sound more Baptist than Lutheran, tbh), closed communion (this is less like Baptists). ELCA is the liberal ones - female pastors are ok, gay pasters are ok (as of 2009), there is a gay bishop, open communion, in denomination communion with Episcopal Church and, I think, the Presbys.

Liberal, weird, and waspy may be ELCA (they like me!!!! ). Though how liberal or conservative depends on which synod you are a part of - the South Carolina Synod (there are for some reason a ton of Lutherans in SC - probably got off the boat there from Germany or Scandinavia) are uber-conservative. The Southeastern Synod is actually fairly liberal (which is interesting).

[The Mad Monk]

Yes, the fact that it seems they were subject to a living torture and that the mothers were in effect used as slave labour.

The high mortality rate just goes to show that all the nuns here were worried about was that child came to term, hence their contempt for them. Also it mentions the bodies of infants - clearly they died after the event unlike BK's assertions - quite probably from poor treatment - starvation...?

Yay for the Catholic Church!

Apparently they were routinely inspected, and all the deaths were were registered by the county, yet nothing came of it. Make me wonder if this is more of a cultural thing. Were there non-catholic institutions like this? It might be useful to look into their records.

[Sava]

Apolyton tends to be strange with searching. I tried to find my conversion story - which led to Ben believing, at least for that day, that I was truly a Christian, but, for the life of me, I can't find it.

I became a Christian back in 2009. I became a Lutheran in.... 2011ish?

And yeah... there are liberal and conservative Lutherans and, being Lutheran, they split from each other a while back . The two main ones are the ELCA and LCMS (Missouri Synod). ELCA has like 6 million members and LCMS has like 5 million. LCMS are Biblical inerrantists, don't allow female preachers, are super against the gays (they sound more Baptist than Lutheran, tbh), closed communion (this is less like Baptists). ELCA is the liberal ones - female pastors are ok, gay pasters are ok (as of 2009), there is a gay bishop, open communion, in denomination communion with Episcopal Church and, I think, the Presbys.

Liberal, weird, and waspy may be ELCA (they like me!!!! ). Though how liberal or conservative depends on which synod you are a part of - the South Carolina Synod (there are for some reason a ton of Lutherans in SC - probably got off the boat there from Germany or Scandinavia) are uber-conservative. The Southeastern Synod is actually fairly liberal (which is interesting).

Do you add the last little bit on the end of the Lord's Prayer?

"forever and ever, unto the ages"

You've not experienced the Lord's Prayer until you hear it in the original Old Church Slavonic

Next time I see that side of my family, I'll inquire into their Lutheranerry.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Do you add the last little bit on the end of the Lord's Prayer?

"forever and ever, unto the ages"

We do "forever and ever, Amen". Unto the ages sounds like hippie crap (not saying we aren't somewhat hippie... not there though)

[Sava]

We do "forever and ever, Amen". Unto the ages sounds like hippie crap (not saying we aren't somewhat hippie... not there though)

I only ever hear the Lord's Prayer in English from that side of the family. Back in the day, we lived in Springfield, IL. There was no Serbian Orthodox church... we went to a Greek one instead. I remember the Greeks saying "unto the ages".

Google results suggest it's more of an Orthodox thing. Though, my aunt (Lutheran) always adds a last little bit at the end when we're done. It makes for a slightly awkward holy war moment.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Awkward

We Lutherans are always stirring **** up...

[Ben Kenobi]

These weren't just miscarried children, they were also infants and toddlers.

Are you saying there's a difference between children who die as infants and children who are miscarried?

County Galway death records showed that the children, mostly babies and toddlers, had died, often of sickness or disease, during the 35 years the home operated from 1926 to 1961, according to Corless's research. The building, which had previously been a workhouse for homeless adults, was torn down decades ago to make way for houses. It doesn't seem a very Christian way to deal with dead children and strikes me as one more mail in the coffin of the Catholic Church in Ireland.

Neither is the Gosnell 'method', of burning children in a wastebin. If we're going to condemn the lack of a Christian burial here, it makes sense to shut down every abortion clinic.

[Ben Kenobi]

I confess to wondering in what way Ben would try to redirect the discussion away from any criticism of the church.

I'm more concerned with what is going on now, rather than what was going on 75 years ago in Ireland.

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/politics/2014/04/24/marion-county-medical-waste/8101409/

Commissioners Sam Brentano and Janet Carlson said today that they were shocked by reports in the Canadian media that aborted fetuses from Vancouver, British Columbia, were being sent to the garbage burner. They said they first learned about this issue late Wednesday afternoon.

The disposal of the so-called 'waste remains' is a very serious issue with the current abortion industry.

While most of this story is sociological (as opposed to religious), the burial of hundreds of innocents on unconsecrated ground in a mass grave is against RCC prescribed practice. Its secretive nature and the facility's very high mortality rate are, shall we say, suggestive of deeper problems.

Prior to the advent of sulfa? Not really. Things have changed dramatically since then.