Political quiz

[Sava]

I wonder how much of the poison surrounding the debate in the US would go away if both sides could put down their rifles and start from a position of something like 28 weeks.

Agree.

Despite it being somewhat against my principles, I would agree to 28 weeks for a few reasons.

It shuts up 99% of the debate.

It is impossible to enforce... except, of course, against women who have are documented as being pregnant for that long. Without documentation, it's impossible to prove the age of a fetus.

Any arbitrary limit within a month or two of 9 months (like 28 weeks) is basically abortion on demand. No proper enforcement mechanism exists.

[C0ckney]

We're clearly using different definitions of socialism then. Obviously they're not by 70's standards, but if they're not at all then basically socialism doesn't exist any more at major party level.

i think that's true on both counts.

[Sava]

... Too liberal for the UK? Liberal Dems are in coalition in the government.

My original statement is flawed, yes... but not for that reason.

[kentonio]

Good luck, most folks on the other side are opposed to any regulations on abortion whatsoever, including requiring abortion clinics to meet the same surgical standards as all other ambulatory surgical clinics. We're talking basic things like proper sterilization of equipment, having an actual doctor perform the abortion, etc.

Let's be honest here though, the pro-choice people are mostly motivated by the fear that giving ground will result in a blanket ban. Things like the surgical standards rules were largely driven by a desire to put the clinics out of business by setting standards they had no way of meeting, rather than a genuine desire to improve service.

There's no excuse for clinics like Kermit Gosnell's to operate in the 21st century.

Very true. The trouble is though that when a debate becomes a battleground its harder to ensure that things are being done properly.

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's be honest here though, the pro-choice people are mostly motivated by the fear that giving ground will result in a blanket ban. Things like the surgical standards rules were largely driven by a desire to put the clinics out of business by setting standards they had no way of meeting, rather than a genuine desire to improve service.

Legally, they are the exact same standard that other ambulatory surgical clinics are required to have. They are not required to go over and above this standard. Regular, unscheduled inspections are also within the purview of the health inspector.

If one believes that abortion is a surgical procedure then it stands to reason that we should regulate it like one.

The trouble is though that when a debate becomes a battleground its harder to ensure that things are being done properly.

Personally, I think the opposition does a lot of damage to their cause by opposing these regulations. I'm a prolifer, but I have no problem with a 28 week limit on abortions in America. Is it ideal? No. Is it the perfect regulation? No.

Everyone calls me a fanatic, but I'm supportive of a compromise where it makes sense. This is one.

[kentonio]

What exactly was it that brought about this sudden desire on the pro-life side to protect women wanting abortions? So after screaming at them in the street, you were all suddenly concerned about their welfare once they make it through the raging crowds and in the door? Do you genuinely expect anyone to believe that?

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Yes. The notion of establishing credibility is a apparently an alien concept, there. -Also honesty, given the evidence.

[Sava]

If pro-life people actually wanted to promote a world where human infant mortality rates were more "natural"... closer to what God intended... then they'd advocate more babiesfetuses be aborted so that current infant death rates more closely resembled natural human infant mortality... as God intended.

[Bereta_Eder]

I'm very pro life, in the way that I want plenty of kids around playing and think having children are the joy of life, but is there one european country (besides maybe ireland or poland) who doesn't allow disctontinued pregnancy up to 3 months?

[Ben Kenobi]

What exactly was it that brought about this sudden desire on the pro-life side to protect women wanting abortions? So after screaming at them in the street, you were all suddenly concerned about their welfare once they make it through the raging crowds and in the door? Do you genuinely expect anyone to believe that?

I can't speak for other prolifers, but I've always maintained this position.

[Ben Kenobi]

then they'd advocate more babiesfetuses be aborted so that current infant death rates more closely resembled natural human infant mortality

If it were natural, then why would it require abortion?

[kentonio]

Agree.

Despite it being somewhat against my principles, I would agree to 28 weeks for a few reasons.

It shuts up 99% of the debate.

It is impossible to enforce... except, of course, against women who have are documented as being pregnant for that long. Without documentation, it's impossible to prove the age of a fetus.

Any arbitrary limit within a month or two of 9 months (like 28 weeks) is basically abortion on demand. No proper enforcement mechanism exists.

I missed this post. I don't think it's true though, I thought doctors could tell with quite a degree of accuracy?

[Sava]

I missed this post. I don't think it's true though, I thought doctors could tell with quite a degree of accuracy?

I don't doubt they can. However, a person's opinion doesn't equate to a scientific standard. Which, IMO should be the basis of law. Though, I don't doubt that it's probably not the case everywhere.

[Ben Kenobi]

Any arbitrary limit within a month or two of 9 months (like 28 weeks)

Math, apparently, is a difficult thing.

[kentonio]

I don't doubt they can. However, a person's opinion doesn't equate to a scientific standard. Which, IMO should be the basis of law. Though, I don't doubt that it's probably not the case everywhere.

Well a medical opinion would be enough for them to determine whether or not they were willing to carry out the procedure.