VW actually wants to unionize its American factory; Republicans freak out.

[Aeson]

No, the dogs are the intended audience, the rest of the public are people. Jesus, did you really not grasp that metaphor?

Trying to pretend there's a set ratio of people:dogs to qualify using a dog whistle is stupid. The mechanics are the same. The dogs can hear it, the people don't register it the same way. Doesn't matter if you have a thousand dogs and one person, or one dog and a thousand people... it's dog whistle politics to use the dog whistle.

[Ben Kenobi]

Kentonio is back, and now he's explaining to Americans how our country actually is, because he knows better from an ocean away than we do right here. Apparently the BBC told him that Idaho is full of white people because of Jim Crow.

Felch, don't you know? Racism has been eradicated in England.

[Hauldren Collider]

Euphemisms are a code. Euphemisms also are meant to protect the meaning from a specific sort of comprehension, and they actually work that way.

Wrong. Euphemisms are meant to be synonymous to an existing term with a new emotional meaning. You are supposed to be able to figure out what it refers to, but understand it in a more positive light.

A code is supposed to be impossible for someone not privy to the code to interpret at all.

[Felch]

Trying to pretend there's a set ratio of people:dogs to qualify using a dog whistle is stupid. The mechanics are the same. The dogs can hear it, the people don't register it the same way. Doesn't matter if you have a thousand dogs and one person, or one dog and a thousand people... it's dog whistle politics to use the dog whistle.

It does matter if you have a thousand dogs and one person because then the metaphor doesn't make any fucking sense.

We as human beings assume that a dog whistle is silent. But we know that dogs (not us) hear it. The metaphor is from a human perspective. Otherwise we would call it "color" and assume that the thousand dogs can't see it, but one human can. And that metaphor would be stupid and make no sense because we're people, silly.

[Aeson]

It can't be a code unless it's meant to obfuscate meaning to a third party. Euphemisms are intended to impute meaning, not obfuscate it. "Pro late term abortion" has a fairly negative emotional charge to it. By going around calling yourself pro-choice, you're not making any secret of what you believe, yet the way you say it imputes the notion that you view it favorably and others should too.

Euphemisms are meant to keep people from fully comprehending what is being said. They mean to bypass the objection to the subject matter by codifying it in a way that the brain will not interpret as objectionable, even though the subject mater actually is objectionable (or at least is assumed to be, thus spurring the euphemism).

The problem with "dog whistles" is that there's no way to actually produce such a code in American politics. There isn't some underground Closet Racist Convention where they all get together and say "okay, Voter ID Law is how we're gonna say 'black people need to be hanged' without everyone knowing! Muahahaha!"

It doesn't have to be racism to be a dog whistle. It can be anything where someone is trying to bypass objection to what they are saying while getting their message through to their base ... by limiting comprehension of what they are saying within the opposition. Which is exactly what euphemisms also try to do. Just because people at some level understand what "Family Values" is, doesn't mean it doesn't have any power to obfuscate the real meaning and make it less objectionable to at least some (and likely a significant portion) of the electorate.

[Felch]

I think it's clear that he's just not getting the metaphor.

[Aeson]

It does matter if you have a thousand dogs and one person because then the metaphor doesn't make any fucking sense.

No, it would still make perfect sense. You would be sending a message to the dogs but not the person.

(Since in the analogy, the person is the group you don't want understanding the message.)

[Aeson]

I think it's clear that he's just not getting the metaphor.

No, it's very clear you're completely lost in the argument.

[Felch]

What's it like being that one person among a thousand dogs?

[MrFun]

Actually, "voter ID laws" is another perfect example where it's a dog whistle phrase for suppressing the right to vote among racial minority groups.

[Elok]

Sometimes having some distance from a situation is absolutely the best way to see it in context, because you're not bound up in the issues personally. A lot of Americans have a real naivety in their beliefs about racism, and a lot of those beliefs are very easily dismissed by an unemotional view of your political and social discourse.

I've lost count of the amount of times race has been brought up here by white folks saying racism is scarcely an issue any more, and then when they're shown quotes by prominent black leaders and writers pointing out just how much of a problem it is the inevitable response is "well they're just saying that to stir up tension so they can stay relevant!". It's pretty depressing really.

If you're referring to my comment about black writers, I thought you were claiming that they said all strong opposition to the president was due to racism. And, with that proviso, I stand by it: anybody who makes such a claim is a rabble-rousing ass. A black writer who argues that too many of his family members get pulled over and arbitrarily searched by the cops? He may very well have a point there.

[Aeson]

What's it like being that one person among a thousand dogs?

It's very nice not to be affected by political euphemism and thus avoiding being driven into rabid partisanship

You should try not being a dog sometime, you might like it!

[Sava]

Why do you put the desires of the union ahead of that of the workers themselves Oerdin?

Even if the choice were really between a corrupt union and management (which is corrupt), I would still choose the corrupt union. At the very least, some of the union's desires will actually "trickle" down to workers... as opposed to letting management bend everyone over.

I cannot for the life of me understand anti-union idiocy. It usually comes from people who have no vested interest in management's interest. It's not like you would get any more money personally if some corporate executives squeeze more out of workers.

It's absolute mental retardation.

[Elok]

At the very least, some of the union's desires will actually "trickle" down to workers... as opposed to letting management bend everyone over.

Not necessarily. It's not hard to envision a scenario where crooked union bosses and crooked company bosses simply fight over the scraps, with the employees losing twice as much as they would have with only one gang of thieves. Or losing the same amount, and having it go to two different sets of people with nothing to show for it.

[giblets]

How are pro choice people 'pro choice', when they support the individual mandate portion of Obamacare? If they were truly 'pro choice', wouldn't they support waivers for everyone who opposes abortion?

Because they want people with pre-existing conditions to have the choice of getting treatment when they need it and not being left to die?

I think it's clear that he's just not getting the metaphor.

So why waste any more time on him?