Pope sends direct message to Ben

[Berzerker]

As far as Jesus is concerned, hatred for others is a much bigger sin than homosexuality. The Pope understands this.

Jesus didn't say homosexuality was a sin - and he could have if thats what he believed, but he did compare hatred to murder

[Kidlicious]

Questioned answered.

You are as dumb as a bag of rocks.

[Kidlicious]

And condemning someone to hell by teaching error is even worse still.

Teaching that homosexuality is not a sin is not condemning people to hell. If you don't realize that there are errors in every sermon you hear there is something wrong with you. The Pope can't condemn you to hell.

[Kidlicious]

What you aren't getting is that everyone is a sinner. He wants the Church to welcome sinners so that they can repent.



If they repent, I have no issue with them. The key point is repentence - to turn AWAY from their sins. I don't see why their sins should be different from everyone elses.



I care about those who are willfully misrepresenting the pope. It seems to matter very little what the Pope actually says is not what you claim he says.

Actual repenting is unfashionable. Loving people is fashionable, that is, so long as it doesn't involve repenting.

[Ben Kenobi]

Jesus didn't say homosexuality was a sin

Jesus argues that marriage is defined by conjugality between a man and a woman.

MT 19:2-8

When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

[Ben Kenobi]

Teaching that homosexuality is not a sin is not condemning people to hell.

Yes, yes it is. People go to hell not realizing they have sinned. This is why teaching error is bad and something that Jesus condemns.

If you don't realize that there are errors in every sermon you hear there is something wrong with you. The Pope can't condemn you to hell.

A sermon should be free of error. A sermon with serious scriptural error to this level can, in fact, condemn people to hell. It must be right - the first time.

[kentonio]

Yes, yes it is. People go to hell not realizing they have sinned.

How the **** could people be sent to hell for something they didn't even know was wrong? What kind of sick perversion is it that you worship exactly?

[Ben Kenobi]

Christian rock acts have helped a number of churches with retention. How surprising that young people might find the christian teachings expressed in song more appealing than an old man mumbling in occasional latin for two hours.

How would you know, you've never been to mass.

Gay people are born that way.

It is not fixed. That is my point. People can change and leave their sins behind.

By telling them they are intrinsically bad

Your logic goes like this:

1. Gay people are born gay
2. Traits we inherit are an intrinsic part of whom you are ergo

3. We must accept homosexuality as it is an intrinsic part of a person.


I challenge both premise 1 and premise 2. Premise 2 - argues that such characteristics can be overcome. There are in fact, examples of healing in which physical deformities are healed. You wouldn't consider the deformity to be a core part of the person, the same works with homosexuality.

This is why it's not intrinsic, it can be changed.

because they cannot feel any way other than they feel

So? An alcoholic knows that when they drink they become addicted. That doesn't mean they cannot achieve sobriety. Same here.

, you're no better than a psychological torturer.

How? I'm arguing that if people have a voluntary desire to leave their sins that this can be achieved. Including homosexuality.

You sit there smirking while people suffer and maintain your smug self satisfaction while children kill themselves across the nation because their families have been taught by the church that they are an abomination against god.

If I believed as you did, yes it would be wrong. But I do not believe that a person's homosexual desires are an intrinsic part of who they are. Ergo, I believe they can change their desires and still remain who they are as a person.

You are basically scum

Glad we're finally dispensing with the irrelevant smokescreens and dealing with core issues, finally.

[Ben Kenobi]

How the **** could people be sent to hell for something they didn't even know was wrong? What kind of sick perversion is it that you worship exactly?

This is a consequence of telling people that sin isn't sin. People believe you, go on committing sin and then end up condemned in hell. This is a biblical teaching, btw. Against false teachers.

[kentonio]

Yes, the core issue is that you're scum. You spout all this **** as if you knew a damn thing about any of it, whereas in fact its just your pathetic ego pretending you know more than scientists and experts in the field. When it comes to most subjects its just funny watching you make yourself look like a total buffoon, but when it's homosexuality that's different. We're talking about real people lives, and kids taking their own lives because of bigoted ****s like you.

To summarize: I don't care what you think, you're a pathetic no-one with a god complex. Please go play in traffic.

[Ben Kenobi]

You spout all this **** as if you knew a damn thing about any of it

Your assertion is that I'm making it all up and that it's not the Catholic church teaching it? You're mistaken.

more than scientists and experts in the field.

There's no genetic trait associated with homosexuality. None.

When it comes to most subjects its just funny watching you make yourself look like a total buffoon, but when it's homosexuality that's different. We're talking about real people lives, and kids taking their own lives because of bigoted ****s like you.

What's bigoted about the assertion that those who want to overcome their homosexual impulses can do so? You might as well argue that al-anon is bigotry for helping Alcoholics get sober.

[Bereta_Eder]

Christian rock acts have helped a number of churches with retention. How surprising that young people might find the christian teachings expressed in song more appealing than an old man mumbling in occasional latin for two hours.



Gay people are born that way. By telling them they are intrinsically bad because they cannot feel any way other than they feel, you're no better than a psychological torturer. You sit there smirking while people suffer and maintain your smug self satisfaction while children kill themselves across the nation because their families have been taught by the church that they are an abomination against god. You are basically scum.

Man... and bare in mind Kentonio is a conservative.
Props to england if its conservatives are like that. Really admirable.

[ricketyclik]

There's no genetic trait associated with homosexuality. None.

Homosexuality is in the genes, say scientists

The findings suggested that overall a man's sexuality depends about 30 to 40 per cent on genetic factors, while the rest depends on environmental factors, such as the hormones a baby is exposed to in the womb.

[Kidlicious]

Yes, yes it is. People go to hell not realizing they have sinned. This is why teaching error is bad and something that Jesus condemns.

You know when you sin, until your heart gets hardened. You don't need the Pope to tell you that. You don't understand human beings. We know what sin is. The problem is we pretend we don't.

A sermon should be free of error. A sermon with serious scriptural error to this level can, in fact, condemn people to hell. It must be right - the first time.

Indeed it should be right. It's not though. More importantly you don't get to blame anyone else for your sin. It's all your fault.

[Ben Kenobi]

You don't need the Pope to tell you that. You don't understand human beings. We know what sin is. The problem is we pretend we don't.

If people have been taught when young that sin is not sin - then it's unlikely they will understand it.

Indeed it should be right. It's not though. More importantly you don't get to blame anyone else for your sin. It's all your fault

False teachings is a sin in it's own right.