Exodus President Alan Chambers realizes he's wrong and apologizes.

[Ben Kenobi]

I think you should shove your death cult up your arse personally, but each to their own. Or at least each to their own right up to the point where you start trying to impose your bronze age bull**** on the rest of us.

You don't mind imposition at all, providing you're the one doing the imposing, and it's your values that are imposed. You do mind when it's the other way around, oddly enough!

Actually most people don't go around trying to impose their own beliefs on other people in the guise of caring about society.

Isn't that what you just did in claiming that the position of the Catholic church was harmful to homosexual people in particular and society in general?

Then again most people also don't have the bare faced hypocrisy to preach about poverty and giving to the poor while their leader sits on a golden thrones wearing a golden hat and surrounded by gold.

So you believe true wealth is gold?

Me obviously. Moron.

The magisterium Catholic church says that they are correct. So we are still at an impasse. You say you are correct, and the Catholic church says they are correct, so who has it right?

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you're arguing that Jesus was speaking to their time and his culture

Yes, in all things. Of course basic truths arise out of the context (ie, what are His general points - what is He trying to say), but the context must be considered.

Protestants hold their traditions as superior to scripture.

That's exactly what "sola scripture" means .

[Ben Kenobi]

One more week of Canuck Trotsky! I know what I'm going to use as my avatar now.

[MikeH]

Him obviously, Moron.

[MikeH]

ah x-posted.

[kentonio]

You don't mind imposition at all, providing you're the one doing the imposing, and it's your values that are imposed. You do mind when it's the other way around, oddly enough!

Isn't that what you just did in claiming that the position of the Catholic church was harmful to homosexual people in particular and society in general?

Typical you really. Here's a hint, when you go around demonizing and discriminating against people, and people criticize you for that, you're not the one being victimized.

So you believe true wealth is gold?

Shame all those starving poor people can't feed their families on sermons isn't it.

The magisterium Catholic church says that they are correct. So we are still at an impasse. You say you are correct, and the Catholic church says they are correct, so who has it right?

They say a virgin got pregnant with a wizard who could make food multiply and resurrect dead people. I'm fairly confident I have more credibility.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, in all things. Of course basic truths arise out of the context (ie, what are His general points - what is He trying to say), but the context must be considered.

But that's not what he's saying there at all. At the time the Mosaic law was the opinion of the age. Christ was arguing that they should go back to the way it was in the beginning, before Moses, that marriage was between a man and a woman for life. This was contrary to the opinion then, and the people complained that this was hard and unfamiliar to them. It's right there in the text!

That's exactly what "sola scripture" means

But sola scriptura doesn't mean sola scriptura. You yourself just quoted Calvin as authoritative in interpreting scripture such as when Calvin is right, he takes precedence over the actual text scripture.

Oh, and btw, your thesis comes from Feuerbach, who says the same thing, that where the apparent text of scripture and his theories part, the theories are right and scripture is wrong.

[Ben Kenobi]

Typical you really. Here's a hint, when you go around demonizing and discriminating against people, and people criticize you for that, you're not the one being victimized.

Most civilized nations protect free association from demagogues wishing to impose their theology on others.

Shame all those starving poor people can't feed their families on sermons isn't it.

I thought gold was a barbarous relic.

They say a virgin got pregnant with a wizard who could make food multiply and resurrect dead people. I'm fairly confident I have more credibility.

You got a virgin pregnant and made food multiply and resurrected dead people? Cool. I want to hear more!

[MikeH]

They say a virgin got pregnant with a wizard who could make food multiply and resurrect dead people. I'm fairly confident I have more credibility.

Oi! No Game of Thrones S4 spoilers!

[Imran Siddiqui]

At the time the Mosaic law was the opinion of the age.

Mosaic Law is apart from God entirely? Are you denying the Old Testament is Scripture? And yes, it was hard, but the people were ready for that truth.

But sola scriptura doesn't mean sola scriptura. You yourself just quoted Calvin as authoritative in interpreting scripture such as when Calvin is right, he takes precedence over the actual text scripture.

As when the Pope is 'right', he takes precedence over the actual text (see, Creation & an allegorical way of reading it)? Interpretations of how to read Scripture are not precedence over Scripture themselves, you silly git. This particular interpretation (which I find most non-fundy Christians believe) was espoused especially in response to Copernicus and his findings of heliocentrism.

So tell me... do you believe in heliocentrism, or is that where you take precedence over the scriptural text?

[Ben Kenobi]

Mosaic Law is apart from God entirely? Are you denying the Old Testament is Scripture? And yes, it was hard, but the people were ready for that truth.

Not at all. I'm contesting your assertion that what Christ taught was the opinion of 1st century Israel. It was not. The text clearly shows that there was considerable resistance to what Christ taught with respect to marriage. Your thesis rests on that assertion that, "Jesus taught what the time taught", but he didn't, not even then. They were accustomed to divorce then as now and Christ taught that Marriage was marriage for life.

As when the Pope is 'right', he takes precedence over the actual text

Show me where any of the infalliable teachings of the pope take precedence.

Interpretations of how to read Scripture are not precedence over Scripture themselves, you silly git.

That's what Feuerbach contends, and where your thesis that 'Jesus taught what the prophets of the time taught' originates.

So tell me... do you believe in heliocentrism, or is that where you take precedence over the scriptural text?

False dichotomy. Yes, I agree with heliocentrism. No, I don't believe it is contrary to what is found in scripture.

[Imran Siddiqui]

contesting your assertion that what Christ taught was the opinion of 1st century Israel.

Not my assumption, but twisting positions is your forte, is it not?

Show me where any of the infalliable teachings of the pope take precedence.

The Pope being able to dictate infallible statements being one.

False dichotomy. Yes, I agree with heliocentrism. No, I don't believe it is contrary to what is found in scripture.

It is contrary to what was believed about the Earth and the Sun in Joshua 10:12-13

12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on[a] its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

But for a more primitive people, it was ok at the time to have them believe that sun was traveling around the Earth and was 'stopped' in its travels. They were not ready for the heliocentric truth of the matter.

[Elok]

Dumb and pointless as my anal-sex argument was...this is worse.

[giblets]

Hence why the term is a misnomer... 'Phobos', fear. 'Homo', sameness. So somehow the Catholic church has a 'fear of sameness.'.

I should coin 'sodomophilia', 'love' of 'sodomy'.

You're an idiot. Butterflies aren't made of butter and dragonflies have nothing to do with dragons. The meanings of words cannot always be inferred from their parts.

[MrFun]

I guess Ben is going to hell for accepting heliocentrism as fact.