College student hides in attic as armed criminals barge into home

[Ben Kenobi]

The Battle of the Alamo wasn't a Pyrrhic victory. The Mexican Army only suffered 400 to 600 casualties while completely wiping out 182 to 257 Texian rebels and capturing the fort.

http://texasheritagesociety.org/The-Travis-Letter-Victory-or-Death-.html

It gave us a cause to rally around, plus they delayed the Mexican army long enough for San Jacinto. They won the battle but lost the war.

[giblets]

It gave us a cause to rally around,

They already had a cause or they wouldn't have been defending the Alamo in the first place. And there were no Canadians participating in the war as far as I know so please don't say "us".

plus they delayed the Mexican army long enough for San Jacinto.

MichaeltheGreat has been through this. The delay was minimal.

They won the battle but lost the war.

They lost the war because of bungling at San Jacinto, which was in no way caused by the battle of the Alamo as it was a product of Santa Anna's incompetence.

[Tuberski]

Do they have a rivalry with Nebraska or something?

And no, that's San Antonio. Ben lives there.

Sorry, Ben lives in Austin.

I live in San Antonio.

ACK!

[Ben Kenobi]

They already had a cause or they wouldn't have been defending the Alamo in the first place.

This is a terrible argument. More were willing to fight after than before.

And there were no Canadians participating in the war as far as I know so please don't say "us".

You're a Yankee now? I thought you were a Brit.

MichaeltheGreat has been through this. The delay was minimal.

The delay was sufficient and crucial to the successful mobilization for Sam Houston.

They lost the war because of bungling at San Jacinto, which was in no way caused by the battle of the Alamo as it was a product of Santa Anna's incompetence.

San Antonio was bait, which Santa Anna took. And it cost him dearly later on.

Had they not been delayed, Houston wouldn't have had time to retreat to San Jacinto.

[Ben Kenobi]

Sorry, Ben lives in Austin.

I live in San Antonio.

Does it bother you living in the dumbest town in America?

[giblets]

This is a terrible argument. More were willing to fight after than before.

The delay was sufficient and crucial to the successful mobilization for Sam Houston.

[Citation needed]

You're a Yankee now? I thought you were a Brit.

I have always been an American. What are you talking about?

San Antonio was bait, which Santa Anna took. And it cost him dearly later on.

Had they not been delayed, Houston wouldn't have had time to retreat to San Jacinto.

Seriously why do you feel the need to sound off on every subject regardless of your actual level of knowledge? I'll refer you to a previous thread where you spouted the same bull**** and it got shot down:

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/202293-Remember-the-fall-of-The-Alamo

There is no point in discussing this any further because as soon as you post something on an internet forum your pride kicks in and you'll never admit it was wrong, ignorant, or uninformed.

[Ben Kenobi]

Seriously why do you feel the need to sound off on every subject regardless of your actual level of knowledge? I'll refer you to a previous thread where you spouted the same bull**** and it got shot down

There was no need for Santa Ana to mobilize from Saltillo. Santa Ana wanted to avenge the defeat and capture of San Antonio, rather than advance up the coast. This is exactly what Urrea did from Matamoros to Goliad. Starting March 1st, Urrea was able to cut off and confront Houston and nearly caught him at the Brazos river in the middle of March. That's just 2 weeks from Matamoros.

Had Santa Ana advanced from Matamoros instead of Saltillo - he wouldn't have crossed the Sierra Madres. He would have forced the Texans to defend at Galveston.

Santa Ana was deplolyed with over 6k men in San Luis de Potosi in December of 1835.

He didn't even manage to cross the Rio Grande until February 12, 1836.

It took Santa Ana about a month to deploy from San Luis de Potosi to Saltillo, and then another month from San Luis de Potosi to the Rio Grande. It took another 2 weeks to get from the Rio Grande to San Antonio, and the seige lasted another two weeks.

Say Santa Ana did the following:

1, Mustered at Vera Cruz, and not San Luis de Potosi.
2, Shipped his troops via sea from Vera Cruz to Matamoros. This would have taken maybe a week at most. He would have been deployed at Matamoros sometime in the middle of December 1835.

He would have begun the Advance into Texas with some 6k men from Matamoros. Seeing as it took Urrea a week to get from Goliad and Two weeks to get to the Brazos, he would have caught Sam Houston's army (and Fannins) at the Brazos river sometime in January before 1835.

December 15 - Vera Cruz
December 21 - Matamoros
December 28 - Corpus Christi.
January 7th - Goliad
January 14th - Brazos River.

There was no need to even engage with the garrison at San Antonio. Urrea did exactly how Santa Ana should have conducted the invasion with his 6k men from Matamoros, Goliad and Victoria. Instead, Santa Ana's choice of taking on the Alamo cost him roughly 3 months of the war. Sam Houston was able to muster a much larger army by April at San Jacinto than he could have mustered in January, had Santa Ana done the correct route.

I'd go so far to say as the decision to fortify and protect the Alamo won the war for Texas before a shot was even fired. Before the siege.

Urrea even told Santa Ana that this was how he ought to invade Texas. So it's not a crazy plan. It was in fact actually done, it was successful in catching Fannin when launched in March and not in January, and was nearly successful in winning the war altogether.

Could Santa Ana have reached the Brazos river by January 15th 1836? Absolutely.

http://www.mcm.edu/~frazierd/maps/TexasRevolution.jpg

As you can see, Urrea left Matamoros March 1st, and was able to reach the Brazos by the 21st. Had Santa Ana left Matamoros in December 15th, he would have reached the Brazos a month later, easily.

Again, why did Santa Ana divert his forces through Saltillo, over the Sierra Madres, through Presidio - all the way to San Antonio? To avenge their defeat. He actually was outpaced by Urrea who advance 2 and a half months later, who went the correct route - from Matamoros, along the coast.

It could have been done. It should have been done - and Santa Ana ended up having to do it anyways.

[kentonio]

Of course you would, because you have a terrible grasp of history and just make up bull**** that supports whatever cause you have decided to support this week.

[Ben Kenobi]

your pride kicks in and you'll never admit it was wrong, ignorant, or uninformed.

Half the war is having your troops in the right place at the right time. Having your troops at the wrong place at the wrong time - means that your 'victory' is really defeat. Having 6k men stopped by 189 is not a 'strategically wise' decision.

[Ben Kenobi]

Of course you would, because you have a terrible grasp of history and just make up bull**** that supports whatever cause you have decided to support this week.

Unfortunately for you it's not bull****. Everything is true. Look at the map - Urrea went from Matamoros up to Goliad along the coast. He insisted it should have been done back in December and ended up doing it in March, and even then it was almost enough despite being 2 and a half months late.

[kentonio]

Considering you had your ass handed to you over this just a month or so ago, it barely seems worth the effort of doing it again.

[Ben Kenobi]

Considering you had your ass handed to you over this just a month or so ago, it barely seems worth the effort of doing it again.

IOW you like the revision of the argument! Hey - this is how things work in the real world....

[kentonio]

IOW you like the revision of the argument! Hey - this is how things work in the real world....

Yes, revisionism is how things work in the real world. When you lose a battle or a siege it's really useful when you can turn it into a propaganda exercise. The Alamo was about as much of a success for the Texans as Dunkirk was to the Allies.

[Tuberski]

Does it bother you living in the dumbest town in America?

One eyed man.

ACK!

[molly bloom]

It gave us a cause to rally around,

First I catch you referring to the American Civil War as 'THE' Civil War. Now this.

How terribly sad. Any of the wars in the Three Kingdoms of the British Isles in the early-middle part of the 17th Century has more importance politically and philosophically for Canada than the American Civil War.

Again, why did Santa Ana divert his forces through Saltillo, over the Sierra Madres, through Presidio - all the way to San Antonio?

Because he thought he was the Americas' equivalent of Napoleon. He wasn't.