Are states' rights more important than human lives?

[Hauldren Collider]

MrFun demonstrates his lack of morality. Your "code" or whatever you want to call it consists of "baww sob story". And you didn't even answer 2.

To elaborate, you are refusing to acknowledge that there is an opportunity cost (a very real cost) to giving this random woman medical care. KrazyHorse is trying to get you to understand that sometimes these costs exceed the benefit.

[Kuciwalker]

1) The benefit of the woman getting the medical care could save her life.

could != will

2) I am judging the cost of the medical care that she needs, which with her meager financial resources, she would not be able to afford on her own.

That wasn't an answer.

[KrazyHorse]

Could save her life? With what likelihood? If it did, what would that be worth in terms which I can compare to the costs?

[KrazyHorse]

That wasn't an answer.

It wasn't even a coherent sentence.

[Aeson]

Now if only Jaguar can post the exact same thing that has 0 chance of ever affecting MrFun we can be sure that utility has been maximized in this thread.

[Ben Kenobi]

So those who oppose Obama's healthcare reform, or those who support these Republican governors action toward Medicare, I have a question.

What advice would you give to those people in the article who have very serious illnesses or diseases? Where should they go, to get the medical care they need?

Given what medical care and resources I have received for my disability, I'll give them the same answer the Canadian Government and their fabled 'universal health care' system gave me. You either pay for it or do without.

Why should I be paying benefits for other people when they exclude me from receiving the care and assistance that I myself need? That's not fair. It would be fairer if everyone paid for themselves. That way I could put the money that I'm not having to pay towards the government, towards taking care of myself.

[kentonio]

MrFun demonstrates his lack of morality. Your "code" or whatever you want to call it consists of "baww sob story". And you didn't even answer 2.

To elaborate, you are refusing to acknowledge that there is an opportunity cost (a very real cost) to giving this random woman medical care. KrazyHorse is trying to get you to understand that sometimes these costs exceed the benefit.

This is why you sound like a heartless ***** when it comes to things like poor people dying totally unnecessarily. Screw opportunity costs and cost analysis, people have a right to not suffer and die for no ****ing reason, and there is especially no reason for it in the richest country in the world. If you think there is any justification for it whatsoever then you really need to pull your privileged head out your ass, and spend more time around actual humans.

[kentonio]

Given what medical care and resources I have received for my disability, I'll give them the same answer the Canadian Government and their fabled 'universal health care' system gave me. You either pay for it or do without.

Why should I be paying benefits for other people when they exclude me from receiving the care and assistance that I myself need? That's not fair. It would be fairer if everyone paid for themselves. That way I could put the money that I'm not having to pay towards the government, towards taking care of myself.

It's seriously pathetic that you shape your entire world view on the idea that you got a bad deal so therefore everyone else should too. You're not a Christian you're just a bitter *******.

[Ben Kenobi]

people have a right to not suffer

And that's really the crux of the matter isn't it? Suffering is an essential part of life. The sooner you learn this the better off you'll be.

[kentonio]

Only because stupid bastards like you exist.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's seriously pathetic that you shape your entire world view on the idea that you got a bad deal so therefore everyone else should too. You're not a Christian you're just a bitter *******.

If it's a bad deal for me, what makes you think it will be a good deal for others? If it's a bad deal for me, don't you think it's my duty to warn others of it? I was told, by many others just like you that it couldn't possibly be true, that the system was designed to work for people like me.

Then, you get into the reality of things. There was a whole constellation of people, of hangers-on, who's only service in life was to take advantage of disabled people. They had a quota and they received so much per year by the state insofar as people were subscribed to them, and they were assigned to me. Far more in dollars assigned to the care of disabled people went to these 'hangers-on', than has ever gone to a single disabled person! Why? Because that is the way the system works.

It was not designed to work to the benefit of disabled people. Perhaps to their 'hangers on', it does, but not to the benefit of the actual disabled people.

I've spent my whole life fighting the people who had me assigned to a certain box and they want to drop me in this box and confine me there. I've eventually broken out of every one of these boxes, and just a few more remain.

I intend to provide for myself, without the assistance of the state, without the assistance of these 'hangers-on', and that has made me an enemy of the system for a long time.

Would the health care of the United States improve? Will there be fewer people dying on the streets? Will any of these purported benefits arise from the switch to an already broken system work? No. And I submit myself and my own experience as proof.

As for the Christian way - the Christian way is to build the hospitals, to build the staff, to build the system, from the charity of others. From the voluntary good will, from the hard work of the volunteers where possible, and the paid staff where it is not to run these hospitals all founded on the benevolence of our Neighbours for whom we rely.

Have I received help from my neighbours over the years? Absolutely. They have taught me everything that I am now. From the state? I have received nothing.

So I surmise that the way to go is to rely on our neighbours and to help them however we can. Not the state.

[kentonio]

In other words you encountered a ****ty system and instead of doing anything to improve it for others you sit back crowing about how you managed so other people should have to too. Like I said, pathetic.

[Ben Kenobi]

Only because stupid bastards like you exist.

How do you propose that the state enforce our purported right not to suffer? By hopping us up on soma? By dropping us in the Matrix? By supplying the Feelies?

Suffering is an inextricable part of life.

CS Lewis even says:

“We were promised sufferings. They were part of the program. We were even told, 'Blessed are they that mourn,' and I accept it. I've got nothing that I hadn't bargained for. Of curse it is different when the thing happens to oneself, not to others, and in reality, not imagination.”

[Ben Kenobi]

In other words you encountered a ****ty system and instead of doing anything to improve it for others you sit back crowing about how you managed so other people should have to too. Like I said, pathetic.

I believe charity should come from my own pocket, not the pockets of others. What point is there trying to fix a system that relies on theft?

[kentonio]

Who gives a flying balls what C.S Lewis says? Suffering is not and integral part of life, and the toleration of suffering forms one of the central reasons why I despise your stupid little death cult.