Hello everybody

[Lorizael]

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?

This statement rejects homosexuality in the same way that it rejects living with your wife and your mother and father, leaving your mother and father and not immediately finding a wife, and leaving your mother and father and going to the bakery to buy some bread.

[Aeson]

Lot's drawing a clear distinction between the men with his daughter and the men with other men.

Because his daughters are nothing more than cattle to him. Men are important, women are to do whatever the **** you want with back then. You keep avoiding this point.

So a story that concerns itself with rape isn't about sexual propriety? I call bull****. I never mentioned rape at all, until you brought it up. So clearly, yes, it is about sexual propriety.

The story isnt actually about rape. It's about how it's more important to treat your guests well than to take care of your daughters. If the story were about the impropriety of rape, then the rape of the daughters would have been just as detestable as the rape of the guests. But it wasn't, so it isn't.

Then quote me where I say that Lot's actions were righteous.

Your actions speak louder than words. You want to base your hatred and discrimination against homosexuals on this story, which screams loudly how just you think Lot's actions were.

You said it's ambiguous. Lex Talionis is clear that if you hurt someone, you will be hurt in return, the same way that you hurt the other person. So, explain. If Lex Talionis says this, how this is at all ambiguous?

I said it was ambiguous about rape, not about Lex Talionis. The reason the OT is ambiguous about rape is right in front of you if you weren't such a mysogenistic piece of ****. Lot is offering his daughters to be raped. It's nothing to him. Yet you want to take this disgusting act and base your views about what is right and just in regards to sexuality on it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Is this the same Lot that laid with both his daughters?

No, they laid with him without his knowledge.

[Aeson]

All in all, just the sort of tale you'd look to for inspiration about how to live a moral life...

[Aeson]

God: homosexuality is wrong, which is why I haven't done anything about it yet!
Lot: Rape my daughters, it's ok
Homosexuals: We'd rather rape your guests!
Guests and Lot: No thanks, really, just rape the girls, it's ok
Homosexuals: No!
God: You have angered me by not raping the girls... you're all dead! Plus I'll turn their mom to salt too just because I'm ****ing badass and women are evil!
Lot: *drinks a lot*
Daughters: Rapes their dad

BK Christians: Let's ignore everything Jesus actually said and instead base our morality on this story!

[rah]

All in all, just the sort of tale you'd look to for inspiration about how to live a moral life...

I too find it astounding that anyone would use this example as something good that we should be basing our behavior on.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because his daughters are nothing more than cattle to him. Men are important, women are to do whatever the **** you want with back then. You keep avoiding this point.

That's because there's no evidence for it. If you read the account, the mob got angry and were trying to break his door down. He was very frightened.

The story isnt actually about rape.

You said it was about rape. Either it is or it isn't, since you clearly mentioned it.

If the story were about the impropriety of rape, then the rape of the daughters would have been just as detestable as the rape of the guests. But it wasn't, so it isn't.

Sokath, his eyes uncovered. Indeed, it's about homosexuality. That's the point.

Your actions speak louder than words.

And my actions are? To preach that God believes that homosexuality is sinful? Here's another biblical quote - "accept correction as discipline."

You want to base your hatred and discrimination against homosexuals on this story, which screams loudly how just you think Lot's actions were.

What did I say I based my opinion on earlier in the thread? I specifically cited Romans and Corinthians. Is Lot's story in either Romans or Corinthians? No? Then I suppose your argument has no merit.

The reason the OT is ambiguous about rape

You just said, this story doesn't concern rape at all, because if it did, it would condemn the rape of his daughters, just as much as it would the men. Yet, it doesn't, does it? It clearly makes a distinction between the two. Why? The story clearly teaches that homosexuality is sinful, even more so than raping his daughters.

So you've already admitted that the OT does in fact condemn rape, and uses the condemnation of rape to drive it's point home here in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, by condemning sexual sin even worse than rape - homosexuality.

[Ben Kenobi]

All in all, just the sort of tale you'd look to for inspiration about how to live a moral life...

Then why are you frothing at the mouth about misogyny if you do not?

[Ben Kenobi]

This statement rejects homosexuality in the same way that it rejects living with your wife and your mother and father, leaving your mother and father and not immediately finding a wife, and leaving your mother and father and going to the bakery to buy some bread.

What does the verb 'cleave' mean?

[Ben Kenobi]

Moron, that says nothing about homosexuality being good or bad.

If homosexuality were good, why did God make them male and female? Why not male and male, or female and female?

[Lorizael]

What does the verb 'cleave' mean?

Cleave is a feat in D&D. Duh.

[Asher]

If homosexuality were good, why did God make them male and female? Why not male and male, or female and female?

God did make them male and male. You interpret it incorrectly.

[MRT144]

If homosexuality were good, why did God make them male and female? Why not male and male, or female and female?

AIDS good! Cancer good!

Also, God had to make male and female to reproduce as mammalian reproduction is unfeasible any other way. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? THE BIBLE IS AN INVALID SOURCE ON BIOLOGY.

[Ben Kenobi]

Cleave is a feat in D&D. Duh.

And, what else?

[Ben Kenobi]

AIDS good! Cancer good!

So women are evil? Interesting hypothesis.