Hello everybody

[MRT144]

Given that it is contrary to reproductive success, there is no such preponderance in nature. Preponderance would imply that there is more homosexuality than heterosexuality.



So it's possible for chastity to be moral despite it being 'unnatural'?

Preponderance was the wrong word. But there is denying there is homosexual activity in nature.

Chastity can be lots of things but moral or immoral is the least of it's concerns. Well, at least until it forces priests into rape.

[Aeson]

Aeson:

"If someone chooses to kill someone, we punish them more than if they act without thinking, correct?"

I didn't realize acting without thinking was even a crime...

(By sure... continue on with whatever inane point you are leading up to Mr Socrates)

[Ben Kenobi]

(By sure... continue on with whatever inane point you are leading up to Mr Socrates)

Just because an action is consensual doesn't make it right.

[kentonio]

Here's a thought, who cares about the moral teachings of some goat herders who lived two ****ing thousand years ago? They didn't even have internet yo.

3, Christians have a primary duty to God. While I am required to support the Church, I cannot support the church if she is in the wrong

For most of the history of the church, you'd have been burned alive for heresy for that bull****. :desire:

[MRT144]

Here's a thought, who cares about the moral teachings of some goat herders who lived two ****ing thousand years ago? They didn't even have internet yo.



For most of the history of the church, you'd have been burned alive for heresy for that bull****. :desire:

Ben Kenobi:

Bad Catholic
Bad Christian
Bad Person

[Aeson]

The context is having a mob beating down your door wanting to have sex with your household. Do you believe that had this not been the case that Lot would have made the same decisions that he did? I think it's pretty clear that he was coerced.

Yet he didn't offer himself. Or money. Or just tell them to **** off. He offered his daughters. He clearly had ****ed up priorities and was a terrible father. And the moral you get from this story is to be like (your misinterpretation of) Lot. It's better to have your daughters raped

Does the story actually say, "Lot considered his daughters to be property". No? Well, then I guess we shouldn't be reading into the text something that the text does not say.

It's a given for most of human history.

Where does Jesus affirm homosexuality?

He doesn't. That isn't what I said. I said you acted in contradiction to Jesus' teachings which pretty much boil down to: don't worry about the sins of others, love and respect everyone, and worry about your own salvation. To which you spend your life judging others, condemning them, all the while ignoring your own faults.

Again, I stated prior to our discussion that I based my opinion on Corinthians and Romans.

And everyone with reading comprehension higher than a first grader knows how there's nothing there to support your beliefs.

It's very clear how you base your beliefs on the story of Lot, since you can't accept the obvious truth about the context of the story.

Also, arguing with me about the source of my beliefs? Really, Aeson? You believe you know me better than I know myself?

Your actions speak louder than words. You twist and contort and do everything you can to not accept the blantantly obvious context of the story of Lot so that you can continue to justify your discrimination against homosexuals based off of your misinterpretation. It's obviously something integral to your core beliefs, something you can't let go of.

So you're arguing from silence? Good to know.

I'm arguing from "a father offering his daughters to be raped". You try to justify his actions by claiming some dudes scared him. **** that. Lot is a pathetic excuse of a father, certainly not someone who's choices should supercede the teachings of Jesus.

[Aeson]

Just because an action is consensual doesn't make it right.

It makes it a whole lot more right than if the same action isn't consensual.

[Ben Kenobi]

For most of the history of the church, you'd have been burned alive for heresy for that bull****.

Then burn I shall. If the state would execute me for stating that homosexuality is sinful, then I shall welcome seeing Him.

[Ben Kenobi]

It makes it a whole lot more right than if the same action isn't consensual.

Not always so. Euthanasia, is worse than manslaughter.

[Jon Miller]

Sexual propriety in regards to homosexuality. It's obviously not a story that concerns itself with rape specifically, as Lot offers his daughters to be raped and that's ok with all you OT freaks.

My own personal opinion of the story is that it's ****ed up because of how it treats rape of women as something perfectly ok. You are a sick piece of **** to not understand this.

Interpretations that I have read is that it wasn't 'perfectly ok'. That there was a lot wrong with lot too, note that the Angels asked Abram about sparing the city and Abram begged that if even 10 righteous people could be found in the city that it would be spared. They couldn't even find 10.

Lot was a bit more discerning than the rest, but I don't think he would count as 'perfectly ok'. Note that Abram wasn't 'perfectly ok' either (Read the OT sometime).

It is true that God is a merciful God, full of Grace (Praise God!). Many of the 'heroes' of the Bible were not 'perfectly ok' but still were counted as righteous due to God's mercy. That gives us hope today, in our own lives.

JM

[Aeson]

Not always so. Euthanasia, is worse than manslaughter.

Voluntary euthanasia is perfectly ok. Manslaughter can vary tremendously.

[Aeson]

Interpretations that I have read is that it wasn't 'perfectly ok'. That there was a lot wrong with lot too, note that the Angels asked Abram about sparing the city and Abram begged that if even 10 righteous people could be found in the city that it would be spared. They couldn't even find 10.

Lot was a bit more discerning than the rest, but I don't think he would count as 'perfectly ok'. Note that Abram wasn't 'perfectly ok' either (Read the OT sometime).

I've read the Bible through several times. I'm aware that no one in the OT is perfect, most of them were *******s, and that's including God. Why do you think I'm taking BK to task so harshly for placing a choice made by Lot above the teachings of Jesus (which are for the most part good, decent values)?

[Ben Kenobi]

Yet he didn't offer himself. Or money. Or just tell them to **** off. He offered his daughters. He clearly had ****ed up priorities and was a terrible father. And the moral you get from this story is to be like (your misinterpretation of) Lot. It's better to have your daughters raped

You seem to be assuming a great deal here. The only moral that I've stated so far, is that homosexuality is a grave sin. I agree with you, he was a terrible father and made the wrong choice. But it does not negate the fact that homosexuality is sinful.

It's a given for most of human history.

Yet, appears nowhere in the text. Odd that. Reading your opinion into the text is wrong.

Where does Jesus affirm homosexuality?

He doesn't.

Thank you. So why are you arguing vehemently that homosexuality isn't sinful?

don't worry about the sins of others

Am I my brother's keeper?

love and respect everyone

Accept correction as discipline.

worry about your own salvation.

And I say to you, whatever you did not do for the least of these, you also did not do for me.

To which you spend your life judging others, condemning them, all the while ignoring your own faults.

Who among you with a lampstand, keeps it hidden?

And everyone with reading comprehension higher than a first grader knows how there's nothing there to support your beliefs.

Digging the hole deeper.

Romans 1:26-7.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

It's obviously something integral to your core beliefs, something you can't let go of.

Gosh, did that take blinding insight. Yes, it is, because it's what Christ teaches.

Lot is a pathetic excuse of a father, certainly not someone who's choices should supercede the teachings of Jesus.

So when Jesus explicitly says that marriage is to be between a man and a woman for life, you argue that Jesus is wrong?

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm taking BK to task so harshly for placing a choice made by Lot above the teachings of Jesus (which are for the most part good, decent values)?

Because Jesus explicitly teaches that marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman, for life. Everything outside of it is sinful.

[Ben Kenobi]

Voluntary euthanasia is perfectly ok.

No, it's not. Killing someone because they ask you to kill them is wrong.