Thread for people to explain how immigrants take jobs

[DaShi]

Pax, even your premise is false, however. There is zero evidence that immigrants actually take jobs, and tons of evidence that they create jobs. By performing work more efficiently, they free up capital for other pursuits, which employ more people. So not only is your position, by your own admission, racist--it is factually incorrect!

Why don't you present some evidence? You're in a decent school, you should have access to a lot of data.

[Pax]

Pax, even your premise is false, however. There is zero evidence that immigrants actually take jobs, and tons of evidence that they create jobs. By performing work more efficiently, they free up capital for other pursuits, which employ more people. So not only is your position, by your own admission, racist--it is factually incorrect!

You're lying on me. I did not say my position was racist you ****. I said that I am being accused of being racist by you, you ****ing lying piece of ****. Stop lying on me.

[Pax]

In addition, my position is that immigration issue is low on my list of priorities. Stop baiting me by attacking me. Engage someone else that gives a **** about this issue.

[DaShi]

What's even more amusing is that HC is basing his argument solely on his lifetime of "experience."

[Hauldren Collider]

You're lying on me. I did not say my position was racist you ****. I said that I am being accused of being racist by you, you ****ing lying piece of ****. Stop lying on me.

How is it not racist to be more favorable to a group from another country as opposed to your own? Maybe you're not being prejudiced by ethnicity, but unless you want to come up with a new "ist" term then racist is the term of choice to describe someone who discriminates by nationality.

Pax, I don't actually think you're a bad guy, or truly racist. I'm just trying to point out what the actual implications of your beliefs are.

[giblets]

Why don't you present some evidence? You're in a decent school, you should have access to a lot of data.

All that education and 'racist' is the best word he can come up with for someone who cares more about Americans than they care about non-Americans.

[DaShi]

I'm coming to realize HC is a lot like many Chinese students.

[Barnabas]

The issue is that low skilled immigrants, often take the jobs of low skilled natives, and the low skilled natives may switch from being low working class, to criminal lumpen proletarians, and then, these criminal class can ruin to some degree the lives of the middle class people.

Something like what happened with former industrial cities such as detroit. Middle class Americans seem to have dealt with it by moving out of the cities, so perhaps they may not have suffered that much from it.

In Argentina, middle class people prefer bolivians as maids, cleaning ladies, or construction workers, over low class argentines. Mainly because bolivian immigrants are bronze age peasants who have a very strong work ethic, they basically have to work very hard as farmers to survive in their country. Poor argentines often do nothing, have no work ethic, and survive because of state subsidies and political clientelism.

[KrazyHorse]

Bringing in lots of low skilled workers does depress wages for other low skilled workers and that happens almost immediately.

There is very little evidence of this actually happening. There is no a priori reason to believe that low-skill immigrants to the US (who mostly do not speak English) and low skill native-born Americans are close substitutes; the labor market is far more complex than simply "high skill vs low skill". The empirical estimates I've seen for the effect on native-born low skill wages are between -5% and 0%.

On the other hand, there is a great deal of evidence that immigration strongly positively impacts the real earnings of higher skill Americans.

One thing I will note is that immigration to the US is dominated by low-skill individuals because of the ridiculous nature of US immigration laws; if you have any close relative who is a US citizen it is very easy to immigrate to the US, while if you do not the immigration process is much more difficult. It is relatively easy for those at the very top of the skill distribution with easily-quantifiable qualifications (e.g. a PhD in physics), but much more difficult for those with less-quantifiable skills (e.g. the next founder of Facebook) or people who are at the BSc/BEng level.

[Dinner]

Sure, supply & demand doesn't exist. NOT!

The reality is if there is one gardener he can charge a higher rate then if there are 100 gardeners in a given area. That's just the reality which every small businessman knows.

[KrazyHorse]

Sure, supply & demand doesn't exist. NOT!

No, you jackass, what I said was that the Mexican and the American exist on different supply curves, even when the American is a high school dropout (or barely graduated) and when the Mexican lives next door to the American. They are not close substitutes for each other. This is backed by numerous empirical studies. I sometimes try to treat you with respect, but then I realize you are beyond hope.

By the way, there is strong evidence that recent immigrants DO negatively impact the earnings of less-recent immigrants. Because they ARE close substitutes for each other.

[KrazyHorse]

I am constantly amazed at how little you morons know about the relevant empirical work on this and many other economics topics.

[KrazyHorse]

I expect you to prove them incorrect yourself, if that's what you want. Asking others to do your work for you is cowardly and lazy.

He is significantly underperforming in this thread

[KrazyHorse]

High skill Americans and high skill immigrants are likely much closer substitutes for each other, on the other hand. However, the network effects for these high skill immigrants may be so strong as to elevate the earnings of even high skill Americans. I am not aware of any empirical work which focuses on this group. At the very least, high skill immigrants would be expected to positively impact the real incomes of low-skill Americans (both through their creation of things low skill Americans consume as well as their demand for the things low-skill Americans produce).

[Hauldren Collider]

He is significantly underperforming in this thread

I'm trying. Practice makes perfect.