Does hell really make sense?

[Jon Miller]

By the way, if we follow the reasoning of Hebrew's it is possible that people have different mechanisms for choosing to reject God or not depending on their circumstances.

Note that both Christianity and Judaism think that prostitutes are sinners, that they are making wrong choices. Yet in Hebrews 11, which describes people making the choice to follow God, Rahab is included.

"By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace."

Now if you receive the Word of God and reject it, or refuse to receive the Word of God when it is given to you, I think you are rejecting God. But I am not the judge in these matters.

I have friends, who are nice guys, but who if confronted with a message in the physics data saying that "God exists" would erase it. I think that despite being nice guys, they are rejecting God. That is their choice.

Jon

[Kidlicious]

What about people who would prefer to not stop existing after death but think Christianity sounds like a fairy tale? Are they choosing to stop existing?

They're evil.

[kentonio]

Good question. Why would anyone choose that? But maybe you don't know what fools people are.

Not really my point. If say to someone 'Worship me or die eternally', that's not really much of a choice, and certainly not a very nice one. Doesn't it just suggest that people are going to believe out of fear?

I have friends, who are nice guys, but who if confronted with a message in the physics data saying that "God exists" would erase it. I think that despite being nice guys, they are rejecting God. That is their choice.

Are you sure about that? I'm an athiest and lover of the scientific method, and if I found that data I wouldn't erase it. It would go against the very foundations of science to do so.

[Jon Miller]

That is what my friend said. He might have been exaggerating, but scientists are biased and this does influence how we interpret our data.

Note that I and my friends are scientists.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Not really my point. If say to someone 'Worship me or die eternally', that's not really much of a choice, and certainly not a very nice one. Doesn't it just suggest that people are going to believe out of fear?

And yet so many people choose not to believe/follow/etc. As such, it must be a real choice?

JM

[Kidlicious]

Ken, believing out of fear is the beginning. If you aren't afraid you're a fool. Some peopke aren't afraid of bears, but if they ever get attacked by a bear that changes.

But people who don't fear God are evil, because God made them like that so.they would be fooled by wisdom.

[giblets]

Ken, believing out of fear is the beginning. If you aren't afraid you're a fool. Some peopke aren't afraid of bears, but if they ever get attacked by a bear that changes.

But people who don't fear God are evil, because God made them like that so.they would be fooled by wisdom.

Bears are kind of scary, but I'm not afraid of T. Rex because the idea of getting attacked by one sounds like pure fiction. I suppose if I did get attacked by a T. Rex that would change because I would discover that I was wrong and T. Rex isn't extinct.

[Jon Miller]

Bears are kind of scary, but I'm not afraid of T. Rex because the idea of getting attacked by one sounds like pure fiction. I suppose if I did get attacked by a T. Rex that would change because I would discover that I was wrong and T. Rex isn't extinct.

Does the majority of the world's population tell you that T. Rex isn't extinct?

JM

[giblets]

Does the majority of the world's population tell you that T. Rex isn't extinct?

JM

Is it the norm for people to base their beliefs off of majority opinion? If so, how can majority opinion be trustworthy if a majority could be accepting something just because a majority already accepts it?

[kentonio]

Does the majority of the world's population tell you that T. Rex isn't extinct?

JM

Does the majority of the worlds population believe in the christian god and say that he exists?

[Kidlicious]

Bears are kind of scary, but I'm not afraid of T. Rex because the idea of getting attacked by one sounds like pure fiction. I suppose if I did get attacked by a T. Rex that would change because I would discover that I was wrong and T. Rex isn't extinct.

Fair enough. I'm more afraid of he who created T Rex, but that's the way God made me.

[Jon Miller]

Is it the norm for people to base their beliefs off of majority opinion? If so, how can majority opinion be trustworthy if a majority could be accepting something just because a majority already accepts it?

It is the norm for people to consider the beliefs of the majority, rather than dismissing them out of hand.

I was responding to your post that 'the idea of getting attacked by one sounds like pure fiction'. Obviously if the majority of people believed that T. Rex exists today, you couldn't argue that you are not afraid of T. Rex because the idea sounds like pure fiction. You could still not be afraid of T. Rex because you didn't think it exists, but you would need to have reasons for this conclusion.

Christianity is the majority religion, although it is true that less than 50% of people are Christians. I would consider any of the major religions as ideas which should not be labeled as 'sounds like pure fiction' without argument and would argue that rational people would do the same.

JM

[Proteus_MST]

Rejecting God means going away from Him. If God is the source of life, then rejecting Him implies the cessation of existence.

If God gives us freewill, because that is 'good', then we have the free will to reject Him and thus die.

Beings that can choose to disobey/reject/etc are more perfect than beings which can not choose, God in His power and perfection created us with the ability to choose to disobey/reject.

JM

How can it be a choice of rejecting him or not if you don´t even know about him (like most cultures outside of europe did óver the course of millenia [which rather had animistic or polytheistic belief systems]).

And wouldn´t a loving god (which is what most christians believe god to be) do everything to make everyone aware of his existence so that everyone can make an informed choice, totally aware of gods existence and knowing that the choice you have to make (between accepting god and going to heaven or rejecting him and going to hell) is real.
I mean, the bible talks about angels who interact with humans and god him-/herself appearing as a burning thornbush.
So there should be no reason for a loving god to let anyone suffer for eternities because s/he makes the wrong choices caused by him/her not knowing that god is real (and rather believing christianity to be a fairy tale).
What keeps god from appearing as a burning speaking thornbush in a talkshow, or letting one of his angels do so ?
(and I am sure an existing god or his angels would have the means to prove they are real and not any imposters/CGI tricks )

[giblets]

After consideration, I concluded that the beliefs of a "majority" sound like pure fiction.

[Ben Kenobi]

I personally believe in annihilationism

Both positions have been held by Christians since the earliest recorded times. The dominant position (damnationism) was held by Rome back when Rome became dominant.

No, you're wrong here JM. Christianity has always taught that souls are eternal. Even back in the early days, this was condemned as heretical, and even now, remains so.

It's important to remember that God does not destroy the souls he creates. He, in his mercy permits those who go to hell, to continue their existence, and live, as they have wanted without him.

Also, universalism is contrary to what Christianity has taught as well, for a different reason. Yes, unrepentent sinners are going to hell, and telling them that they can be redeemed in hell, is wrong.