Private sector or public sector: Which is more efficient?

[Asher]

As I said you are full of ****. At 1.25 CDN to the USD, that means that the equivalent expenditure was 3000 CDN.

You are too ****ing stupid to live, Ben.

The two numbers have been normalized for exchange rates. Do you understand the concept of exchange rates? If in 2005 they were spending $3000CDN, that does not mean they were spending more than someone spending $2900US.

I suppose you think someone making 200,000 yen a year is richer than someone making $190,000US a year?

[Kitschum]

Mortality rates have very little to do with the health care system. The biggest difference is infant mortality.

Speaking of, does the US still have higher infant mortality than Communist Cuba?


Fakest edit ever: I'll just answer my own question in the affirmative...

2005-2010:

Cuba: 5.12
United States of Freedom and Godliness and No New Taxes: 6.81

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

[Asher]

US life expectancy for whites (2007, courtesy of the US Census): 78.4
Canadian life expectancy (all races, can't find breakdown by race, 2007): 80.3

[Asher]

Speaking of, does the US still have higher infant mortality than Communist Cuba?


Fakest edit ever: I'll just answer my own question in the affirmative...

2005-2010:

Cuba: 5.12
United States of Freedom and Godliness and No New Taxes: 6.81

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate

I, for one, am completely shocked that a nation that does not provide all mothers with adequate pre-natal care would have such a high infant mortality rate.

[Ben Kenobi]

So it's because of blacks and Mexicans that the US fares lower, even for Caucasian life expectancy?

Again, life expectancy is a poor way to measure a health care sysem, because most of it is infant mortality.

Uh, what? Canada does not charge a monthly fee for health care...if your province does, well, your province sucks.

Thank you. Provinces and states are important.

Since when is it mandatory to have health insurance in Canada???

It's mandatory in BC. I don't know about Alberta but in BC, you have to carry the provincial health insurance.

No, you don't have a choice.

You just admitted that I can choose not to carry coverage. End of story.

but you have to be a complete ****ing moron to not have insurance.

I'm young, I'm healthy. Beyond car insurance which covers in the event of injury, it's really not much point to it for me at this time.

Please give me the address of the hospitals you've been using that have been rendering services for an illegal.

Again, you're full of ****, but you don't care. Asher must always be right.

You are not a legal resident, let alone a citizen. I was both, for longer.

Citizen not yet, resident, yes. But do go on since you know better than me.

I suppose you think someone making 200,000 yen a year is richer than someone making $190,000US a year?

I can get a house here for about a third what it cost in PG, and PG is not expensive in Canada. Again, the dollar goes far further in the US, and I haven't even gotten into income disparities.

I'd argue the ratio is closer to 1.5 to the 1 for the US and Canada in terms of purchasing parity.

[giblets]

Again, Americans spend more. The US government does not. Add all US spending together and it is more, public + private.

No Ben, the US government spends more per capita on healthcare than the Canadian government.


http://topforeignstocks.com/2011/07/...ountries-2009/

In either country you are forced to pay. In the US you are forced to pay more and won't get anything back if you have a health problem before you're 65. Yet somehow you love the US system and hate the Canadian one. Go figure.

[Asher]

Again, life expectancy is a poor way to measure a health care sysem, because most of it is infant mortality.

Thank you. Provinces and states are important.

It's mandatory in BC. I don't know about Alberta but in BC, you have to carry the provincial health insurance.

You just admitted that I can choose not to carry coverage. End of story.

What the **** is so damn difficult about this?

In both the US and Canada you pay taxes which fund health care. The average person pays more to the government for health care in the US than Canada. YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE ABOUT THIS.

You DO have the choice, in the US, to spend ****loads of money (directly or indirectly) on health insurance to get what everyone gets already in Canada. You can call that a choice if you want to, but you're a moron.

I'm young, I'm healthy. Beyond car insurance which covers in the event of injury, it's really not much point to it for me at this time.

Yep, because nothing can ever happen.

How much does it cost to get a cyst removed without insurance? Even that must be expensive.

I've had friends get testicular cancer (20s is the prime time for that), how much would that cost?

Let's say you break a leg or ankle playing sports. How much would that cost?

More importantly, how ****ed would you be if any of these things happened and you had no insurance?

Do you never go to a GP/family doctor either?

Citizen not yet, resident, yes. But do go on since you know better than me.

I've talked to your brother, you idiot. Stop lying. You are not a legal resident.

I can get a house here for about a third what it cost in PG, and PG is not expensive in Canada. Again, the dollar goes far further in the US, and I haven't even gotten into income disparities.

I'd argue the ratio is closer to 1.5 to the 1 for the US and Canada in terms of purchasing parity.

Holy ****ing **** are you ever clueless.

[giblets]

Yep, because nothing can ever happen.

How much does it cost to get a cyst removed without insurance? Even that must be expensive.

I've had friends get testicular cancer (20s is the prime time for that), how much would that cost?

Let's say you break a leg or ankle playing sports. How much would that cost?

More importantly, how ****ed would you be if any of these things happened and you had no insurance?

Do you never go to a GP/family doctor either?

If he gets testicular cancer, that just means he gets to see Jesus sooner.

[Asher]

No Ben, the US government spends more per capita on healthcare than the Canadian government.

He's trying to weasel out now by arguing the currency differential means he's right.

Who cares that things cost the same in both countries? Facts be damned.

What a pathetic loser. Truly...

Ben's approach to arguments:

1) Lie!
2) Lie!
3) When caught lying, lie some more!
4) Lie some more
5) If they are still calling you out, lie in a different way
6) Lie some more as in step 5 until they stop
7) If they do not stop, simply say "bull****" and stop responding

[Asher]

If he gets testicular cancer, that just means he gets to see Jesus sooner.

He better hope he doesn't get appendicitis either. I've had a couple colleagues in their late 20s/early 30s in the last year get that.

Apparently it can cost over $20,000 today.

http://www.oralchelation.com/calcium/DegenerativeKneeJoint/p28.htm

One Critical Appendectomy Later, Young Woman Has a $19,000 Debt


NEW YORK -- Dreams of a bright career in a big city lured Rebekah Nix here from the western plains of Texas two years ago. An appendectomy sent her home.

But not because she was ill. Ms. Nix, 25 years old, was fleeing the nearly $19,200 in medical bills that had piled up on her bedroom dresser. The college graduate and former magazine fact-checker couldn't fathom how two days in a hospital could cost so much, until she learned that people like her -- who don't have health insurance -- often are expected to pay far more for their medical care than large insurers, health-maintenance organizations or even the U.S. government.

The hospital where Ms. Nix was treated, New York Methodist in Brooklyn, typically bills HMOs about $2,500 for an appendectomy with a two-day stay, compared with the $14,000 -- plus doctors' fees -- that Ms. Nix was billed. The hospital gets paid about $5,000 from Medicaid, the state and federal health program for the poor, and about $7,800 from Medicare, the federal program for the elderly, for the same procedure.

"Why does a single person get stuck with the whole bill?" Ms. Nix asks. "An uninsured person would have a lot less money than those government agencies or insurance companies."

But hey, you have a choice not to pay for insurance on top of what you already pay to the government.

[Ben Kenobi]

You DO have the choice, in the US, to spend ****loads of money (directly or indirectly) on health insurance to get what everyone gets already in Canada. You can call that a choice if you want to, but you're a moron.

So you concede the point. Thank you.

Do you never go to a GP/family doctor either?

Once a year, if that.

I've talked to your brother, you idiot. Stop lying. You are not a legal resident.

Heh, so you are relying on second hand information? We've not spoken in two years.

Holy ****ing **** are you ever clueless.

So you buy things that are more expensive from Canada than in the US? Stuff's cheaper here.

Who cares that things cost the same in both countries? Facts be damned.

They don't. Not by a long shot.

[Dr Strangelove]

My grandmother waited 18 months for back surgery. Efficient? Hardly.

Hey I've got a patient who began having weakness in his arms and legs back at the beginning of the year. He had no insurance so he had to wait to get Medicaid. When I saw him last month he was already unable to stand. I got him to a specialist, he got an MRI, compression of his cervical spinal cord was discovered and he's having surgery. Unfortunately the odds are against him ever walking again because his spinal cord has been crushed for the past 6 months while he waited to get welfare. Virginia's current governor is new of the current new darlings of the GOP. He slashed the heck out of the "entitlements", now it takes 6 months to get Medicaid even if you're loosing the ability to walk.

OTOH most back problems aren't anywhere nearly so dire. In less than 5% of the cases an identifiable cause such as bulging discs, compressed spinal nerves, etc will be found. Even in those cases the plain fact is that when surgery is attempted in most cases the person is no better off. Even with private insurance a lot of people wait 18 months because the surgeons know that surgery isn't likely to help. I'm saying that without knowing the actual problem your mother had.

[KrazyHorse]

He better hope he doesn't get appendicitis either. I've had a couple colleagues in their late 20s/early 30s in the last year get that.

Apparently it can cost over $20,000 today.

http://www.oralchelation.com/calcium/DegenerativeKneeJoint/p28.htm

But hey, you have a choice not to pay for insurance on top of what you already pay to the government.

This is a completely valid criticism of US health care: the opaqueness of prices to individual consumers and thus the difficulties faced by these consumers to price-shop.

The health care market in the US is ridiculously distorted by medicare, certification requirements, insurance tax advantages, regulatory capture by the medical establishment, etc

Doctors as a group are probably the ones most responsible for the level of hardship faced by individuals without insurance coverage (both by restricting the supply of new doctors through certification requirements as well as their utterly repugnant attitude toward price competition).

Doctors

[KrazyHorse]

Is Ben seriously an illegal immigrant? If so, how does he work as a schoolteacher (or is that a lie)?

[Asher]

So you concede the point. Thank you.

I concede nothing, you just do not comprehend what I am saying. I've never said insurance was not a "choice", but the problem is you're paying even more than in Canada BEFORE insurance so focusing on insurance seems mildly retarded.

Once a year, if that.

How much does that cost you per visit?
Or do you come back to Canada and mooch more off the Canadian taxpayers like you did for your education?

Heh, so you are relying on second hand information? We've not spoken in two years.

I'm relying on your family's input, I don't see why they'd lie. I also have an understanding of how the US immigration system works, and I can guarantee you that a guy with an arts degree in history (or whatever it is you studied), would not get a working visa (let alone a living visa) to work for some private faith-based school without years of waiting and government bull****.

So you buy things that are more expensive from Canada than in the US? Stuff's cheaper here.

They don't. Not by a long shot.

Compare bestbuy.com to bestbuy.ca

First thing I checked: Xbox 360 250GB console: $399.99 CDN ($407.35 USD) (Bestbuy.ca)
Xbox 360 250GB console:$399.99 USD (Bestbuy.com)

Yeah, look at that long-shot difference. Whew.