Private sector or public sector: Which is more efficient?

[Asher]

You should also include GST/PST and some fraction of the payroll taxes.

PST?

GST is 5%. I'm not sure what the average spending is per person.

[Asher]

I just spent about $30K in GST the other week.

Thank **** I don't live in a province with PST/HST.

[KrazyHorse]

They charge on new houses?

[Ben Kenobi]

The US government spends more money per capita on health care than Canada.

AMERICANS spend more, yes. They also get more, and actual timely care.

While the cost is not entirely from government, where exactly do you think that money comes from? It comes from insurance, which you pay for either directly or indirectly.

In America I have the choice. I can choose (at least until Obamacrap hits), whether or not to pay insurance. I can choose the amount of coverage I wish to have. In Canada, not only do I have to pay taxes on healthcare, I must pay for mandatory insurance. It all adds up. If I've already paid for surgery, shouldn't I be able to get it when I want? But that's not how the system works.

You need to think this through.

Like KH I have experience with both nation's style of dealing with stuff. America blew me away when I understood just how far ahead they are of Canada in terms of both quality of care and access.

[notyoueither]

BTW, 75% of health care services in Canada are provided privately, but funded publicly. Many people don't know that.

Bull****.

That is counting private contractors that are 100% funded by the public purse as private sources, and also counts hospitals run by nonprofits and entirely dependent on government funds as private as well.

It is... just bull****.

[giblets]

AMERICANS spend more, yes. They also get more, and actual timely care.



In America I have the choice. I can choose (at least until Obamacrap hits), whether or not to pay insurance. I can choose the amount of coverage I wish to have. In Canada, not only do I have to pay taxes on healthcare, I must pay for mandatory insurance. It all adds up. If I've already paid for surgery, shouldn't I be able to get it when I want? But that's not how the system works.



Like KH I have experience with both nation's style of dealing with stuff. America blew me away when I understood just how far ahead they are of Canada in terms of both quality of care and access.

The US government spends more per capita on healthcare than the Canadian government. Meaning that in either system, you don't have a choice about paying into it. But in Canada you can get the health care you pay for before you turn 65.

[Asher]

They charge on new houses?

Yep.

[Asher]

Bull****.

That is counting private contractors that are 100% funded by the public purse as private sources, and also counts hospitals run by nonprofits and entirely dependent on government funds as private as well.

It is... just bull****.

How is it bull**** when that's specifically what is said?

It says quite clearly the funds come from the public, but the companies providing the services are, indeed, private contractors.

[Asher]

AMERICANS spend more, yes.

What the **** do you not understand?

These statements are BOTH true:
1) The US GOVERNMENT spends more money PER CAPITA on health care ($2,724) than CANADA'S GOVERNMENT ($2,120).
2) AMERICANS spend MUCH more money PER CAPITA on health care ($6,714; 15.3% of GDP) than CANADIANS ($3,678; 10.0% of GDP).

They also get more, and actual timely care.

If they got more care, how come their mortality rates are, in general, the same or worse than Canada's? Why is the life expectancy statistically quite a bit less?

You can only blame Mexicans and Blacks for so much.

In America I have the choice. I can choose (at least until Obamacrap hits), whether or not to pay insurance. I can choose the amount of coverage I wish to have. In Canada, not only do I have to pay taxes on healthcare, I must pay for mandatory insurance. It all adds up. If I've already paid for surgery, shouldn't I be able to get it when I want? But that's not how the system works.

You're a ****ing idiot.

In America and Canada you pay money to public health care. In America, you actually pay MORE per capita for public health care than in Canada. You just don't usually get ANYTHING for it unless you qualify for medicare, etc.

You don't have a choice in either country. You pay it.

The difference is, in America you basically have to buy expensive insurance in addition to paying the public taxes, or you run the risk of being bankrupted by a simple accident.

By any reasonable interpretation, you're paying far more money in the US and getting, statistically, the same or worse results. You're not getting much of a choice there.

Like KH I have experience with both nation's style of dealing with stuff. America blew me away when I understood just how far ahead they are of Canada in terms of both quality of care and access.

I've lived in the US longer than you have, Ben. And I did it as a legal citizen (and resident) and actually used the medical system. Shut the **** up if you're going to claim to have some kind of anecdotal trump card here.

[KrazyHorse]

Yep.

Good.

[Ben Kenobi]

The US government spends more per capita on healthcare than the Canadian government. Meaning that in either system, you don't have a choice about paying into it. But in Canada you can get the health care you pay for before you turn 65.

Again, Americans spend more. The US government does not. Add all US spending together and it is more, public + private.

[Asher]

Again, Americans spend more. The US government does not. Add all US spending together and it is more, public + private.

WHY THE **** IS THIS SO DIFFICULT?

US GOVERNMENT SPENDING ON HEALTH CARE PER CAPITA: $2,724 (2005: $2862)
CANADIAN GOVERNMENT SPENDING ON HEALTH CARE PER CAPITA: $2,120 (2005: $2410)

WHICH OF THESE NUMBERS IS GREATER?

SOURCE IS THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: http://apps.who.int/whosis/database/...indicators=nha

[Ben Kenobi]

If they got more care, how come their mortality rates are, in general, the same or worse than Canada's?

Mortality rates have very little to do with the health care system. The biggest difference is infant mortality.

Why is the life expectancy statistically quite a bit less?

Life expectancy again has very little to do with the medical system. The biggest denominator is infant mortality.

You can only blame Mexicans and Blacks for so much.

Unfortunately facts prove your assertion nonsense.

But that's not how the system works.

Exactly! Which is why Canada's system is ****ed.

In America and Canada you pay money to public health care.

Yeah, and only Canada comes out and mugs me for a monthly payment irrespective of income.

You just don't usually get ANYTHING for it unless you qualify for medicare, etc.

Very much depends on where you are.

You don't have a choice in either country. You pay it.

I don't have to carry health insurance here in the US, in Canada I do.

The difference is, in America you basically have to buy expensive insurance in addition to paying the public taxes

No I don't.

, or you run the risk of being bankrupted by a simple accident.

So you admit then that I was right, in that you have a choice? Yes, I have a choice.

By any reasonable interpretation, you're paying far more money in the US and getting, statistically, the same or worse results.

Actually I'm getting far better access to care, here then in Canada.

I've lived in the US longer than you have, Ben. And I did it as a legal citizen (and resident) and actually used the medical system. Shut the **** up if you're going to claim to have some kind of anecdotal trump card here.

Gee, same with me. Gosh. Don't you get tired on pissing on people? Look we all know that you have to piss on the US to make yourself feel better about Canada.

[Ben Kenobi]

Per capita government expenditure on health at average exchange rate (US$) ? 2410.0 (2005)

As I said you are full of ****. At 1.25 CDN to the USD, that means that the equivalent expenditure was 3000 CDN.

[Asher]

Mortality rates have very little to do with the health care system. The biggest difference is infant mortality.

Life expectancy again has very little to do with the medical system. The biggest denominator is infant mortality.

Unfortunately facts prove your assertion nonsense.

So it's because of blacks and Mexicans that the US fares lower, even for Caucasian life expectancy?

Yeah, and only Canada comes out and mugs me for a monthly payment irrespective of income.

Uh, what? Canada does not charge a monthly fee for health care...if your province does, well, your province sucks.

I don't have to carry health insurance here in the US, in Canada I do.

Huhhhhhhh? Since when is it mandatory to have health insurance in Canada???

No I don't.

So you admit then that I was right, in that you have a choice? Yes, I have a choice.

No, you don't have a choice. You're paying MORE to the government for public health care in the US. YOU HAVE NO CHOICE IN THAT. You have a choice if you get insurance, but you have to be a complete ****ing moron to not have insurance. But you still pay the government more than you would in Canada, YOU JUST DO NOT GET ANYTHING FOR IT.

Actually I'm getting far better access to care, here then in Canada.

Please give me the address of the hospitals you've been using that have been rendering services for an illegal.

Gee, same with me.

You are not a legal resident, let alone a citizen. I was both, for longer.

Gosh. Don't you get tired on pissing on people?

Not pathological liar homophobic Christians...

Look we all know that you have to piss on the US to make yourself feel better about Canada.

It's ****ing hilarious that you're going to assert someone who was, until recently, a dual citizen had to "piss on one to feel better about the other". Unlike you, I could've just as easily lived in both countries.