Christianity ruins families.

[Ben Kenobi]

If Elok's done, I'm going to respond to his points.

Let's be clear here. I'm not arguing about anything other than my position on homosexuality here. Arguments about the kitchen sink are not relevant to this issue. It's a non sequitor.

You give obviously false, outdated or biased sources

Fine. Do you have a list of approved sources on the topic of homosexuality that meet with your approval?

I believe that all sources have bias. The problem is not to find an unbiased source, but whether the claims in them are true or false.

make extravagant and often-ludicrous claims

About homosexuality? What is extravagant about the claim that homosexuality is bad for your mental and physical health? Why does it matter if a claim is ludicrious if true?

ignore arguments to the contrary

There is one of me and many of you. If I have missed an argument of yours, I apologise. Oftentimes I get ganged up on, and I have to go toe to toe with folks who have quite strong opinions on this issue.

repeat arguments debunked in previous threads,

WRT homosexuality, which arguments do you consider debunked that I can no longer make.

distort your opponents' positions without shame

Well if I've distorted your positions in this thread, please show me.

[Jon Miller]

I don't care about "tolerant," that's Rah's bag. I'm dismayed by the lack of intellectual honesty. You give obviously false, outdated or biased sources to back up your claims and even then fib about what they establish, make extravagant and often-ludicrous claims about all sorts of topics, ignore arguments to the contrary (sometimes digging through 500-word post for a few lines you can respond to), repeat arguments debunked in previous threads, distort your opponents' positions without shame, and play martyr when called out on any of it.

Which is why I generally don't bother arguing with you any more.

This is a bigger issue.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

Elok:

You give obviously false, outdated or biased sources to back up your claims and even then fib about what they establish, make extravagant and often-ludicrous claims about all sorts of topics, ignore arguments to the contrary (sometimes digging through 500-word post for a few lines you can respond to), repeat arguments debunked in previous threads, distort your opponents' positions without shame, and play martyr when called out on any of it.

Breathe.

Anything else?

[Elok]

I don't care about "tolerant," that's Rah's bag. I'm dismayed by the lack of intellectual honesty. You give obviously false, outdated or biased sources to back up your claims and even then fib about what they establish, make extravagant and often-ludicrous claims about all sorts of topics, ignore arguments to the contrary (sometimes digging through 500-word post for a few lines you can respond to), repeat arguments debunked in previous threads, distort your opponents' positions without shame, and play martyr when called out on any of it.

Which is why I generally don't bother arguing with you any more.

[Ben Kenobi]

if you said that you thought male homosexuality was bad once a year, or once a month, a lot less people would be considering you intolerant.

So if I sat down and stayed quiet in the corner and kept my mouth shut it would make a difference?

Have I understood you correctly?

[Jon Miller]

BK, if you said that you thought male homosexuality was bad once a year, or once a month, a lot less people would be considering you intolerant.

There are people who are not in favor of gay marriage and aren't intolerant (I think the tolerance argument for gay marriage is terrible).

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

Arguing the exact wording is one of the reasons you come off as a bigoted ass.

So asking for clarification of your position makes me come off like an ass?

I don't think it's a distortion for me to say that you believe that everyone should be treated equally, including gay people.

Correct?

You believe that gay people should be allowed to marry and that they should be allowed to adopt, because to do so otherwise would be discrimination, correct?

You believe that everyone who says that they should not be permitted to marry and should not be allowed to adopt is intolerant?

Your rationale is because you believe that in order for people to be truly equal, people should be able to marry whomever they love.

Is all this correct?

[Ben Kenobi]

Mr. Fun:

You've Godwined the thread. Expect criticisms for hyperbole when you do that.

[rah]

Arguing the exact wording is one of the reasons you come off as a bigoted ass.
You asked, I answered. You're allowed your opinion. Everyone else here is allowed also.

[MrFun]

Fun's equating his current situation with the holocaust. Par for the course.

Distorting a person's argument once again. It comes naturally for you.

[Ben Kenobi]

There is no way that you can say things like gays shouldn't be treated like everyone else without sounding intolerant. Hence you will never be considered tolerant. That's your right, but don't expect people here to praise you or agree with you.

Ok, not quite there yet, rah.

You're still criticising what I say, without providing a positive answer to my question.

Are you saying that I should say that we should treat gay people exactly the same as everyone else?

Why don't you spit out what this means wrt policy?

[rah]

There is no way that you can say things like gays shouldn't be treated like everyone else without sounding intolerant. Hence you will never be considered tolerant. That's your right, but don't expect people here to praise you or agree with you.

[Ben Kenobi]

No I don't.

Which is why I also asked Elok the question. How would I express my opinion in a manner that would be considered tolerant to you?

This is a honest question, to both you and Elok.

You both seem to say that it is how I'm expressing myself that makes the difference.

So, show me. What should I be saying in order to be considered tolerant?

[rah]

You really don't understand. It's almost sad.

[Ben Kenobi]

I guess the answer to my question is NO. As expected.

I'm trying to understand what you regard as intolerant. That's why I asked you the question.

What is the difference between the two positions?