Does Plan B = Abortion?

[Elok]

It was the "drunken unprotected sex with a chick who has emotional baggage with a friend" part.

[David Floyd]

Dude, we've all done that.

Well, maybe not all of you guys. But most guys in general have at some point or another, or would if put in the position to do so.

[Jon Miller]

Not everyone is an ass DF.

I know many guys who have not done that.

JM

[David Floyd]

The first part (unprotected drunk sex) is not that uncommon. If anything, it's a poor decision, not "being an ass". The second part (...with a girl who has emotional baggage with a friend) is perhaps less common, but there's also a bit more to the story. And no, I'm not going into it.

Just suffice it to say that the night was a series of bad decisions by two parties, and that the girl involved in no way thinks I'm an ass or a cretin.

[MikeH]

I have done both when younger (in separate incidents).

[MikeH]

The being an ass part is starting a combination gloating/troll abortion thread on Poly about it. Also the "talked her into going 50/50" part.

[David Floyd]

Yes, and yet you people are still good for 3+ pages of replies

[Wezil]

At least two pages of Ben nonsense. Does that count?

[David Floyd]

Good point. No, not really.

But then again, my main objective in posting this was to get someone to self-own themselves by posting something stupid. And given the dismantling of that Finnish study linking abortion with the death of the mother (or some such prattle), that was brought up by the usual suspect, I think I succeeded

[Hauldren Collider]

I'm not nearly enough of an ******* to deserve the title Kuci Jr.

[MikeH]

Don't be so hard on yourself. You're not that far off!

[Ben Kenobi]

I found that Finnish study in a quick and dirty 30 second search BEFORE I posted here. But it doesn't really talk to things caused by abortion versus childbirth.

Yes, it does, Flubber. It looks at a bunch of different things. It looks at women who die after having an abortion. It looks at other things like suicide rates, which is 6x higher after having an abortion as well, because the study can actually make this linkage with women who've had abortions in the past year, and commit suicide soon after.

As I said, Finland is one of the few countries that actually keep track of such things making such a study possible. There have been attempts to do the same with the US, but it's much more difficult, and the data isn't as reliable. More omissions.

The fact that they find that women who undergo abortions are 6 times more likley to suffer violent death sounds more like a result of the characteristics of a person that seeks abortion than something caused by abortion.

Well, you compare it with postpartum depression. The fact that women who have an abortion are far more likely to commit suicide than the average woman (over the course of an average year of her life), or of a woman who's just had a child (including women with postpartum depression), is very significant. It indicates that abortion causes severe emotional trauma.

If you wanted to truly study this stuff, one would have to control for the education, income, pre-pregnancy health etc etc.

Gissler's got it all there. I bet if you asked him nicely he'd provide it for you. Gissler's the best authority on this subject and his conclusion is that women who have an abortion are 2.5 times as likely to die from the abortion (ie, sepsis, etc) than in childbirth.

Ben do you have an actual study???

It is an actual study. I can get the full text of it if you are interested which is in my files, which I don't have right now, (as I've moved about 10 times in the last 3 years).

[Ben Kenobi]

At home and abroad, the abortion, family planning, and population control groups which seek to promote MAP ignore the scientifically-proven risks of levonorgestrel (the sole active ingredient of Plan B MAP). These well-documented adverse side effects include significant weight gain (on average 15 pounds), depression, ovarian cyst enlargement, gallbladder disease, high blood pressure, respiratory disorders,(4) increased risk of ectopic pregnancy (5) and death. In some women, these serious adverse effects of levonorgestrel-type MAP could lead to further health risks for bulimia, anorexia, or clinical depression.

http://www.pop.org/20040312602/the-dangers-of-the-morning-after-pill

[Ben Kenobi]

At home and abroad, the abortion, family planning, and population control groups which seek to promote MAP ignore the scientifically-proven risks of levonorgestrel (the sole active ingredient of Plan B MAP). These well-documented adverse side effects include significant weight gain (on average 15 pounds), depression, ovarian cyst enlargement, gallbladder disease, high blood pressure, respiratory disorders,(4) increased risk of ectopic pregnancy (5) and death. In some women, these serious adverse effects of levonorgestrel-type MAP could lead to further health risks for bulimia, anorexia, or clinical depression.

http://www.pop.org/20040312602/the-dangers-of-the-morning-after-pill

4. " Contraceptive Implants Come of Age ," Progress in Reproductive Health Research No. 61, World Health Organization.

5. " A Communication to All Doctors from the Chief Medical Officer ," Chief Medical Officer Update No. 35, U.K. Department of Health, January 2003.

Both of these are his citations for the list of side-effects of levonorgestrel.

[Ben Kenobi]

1- It records all deaths in the year following the procedure, and finds (among other factors) that women who have abortions are more likely to be murdered. And includes all these coincidental factors in the results.

Yes, it includes all deaths in the year after, but the quote of 2.5 times deals with those specific deaths caused by abortion, not the incidental deaths or the suicide. This is why it's only 2.5 times when comparing abortion with childbirth, and then 6 times with suicide afterwards.

2- You're being specifically challenged on the "Plan B" safety, which your report doesn't cover.

I'm answering Flubber's question.