Does Plan B = Abortion?

[Ben Kenobi]

Found what I was looking for.

Gissler M, Berg C, Bouvier-Colle MH, Buekens P. Pregnancy-associated mortality after birth, spontaneous abortion or induced abortion in Finland, 1987-2000. Am J Ob Gyn 2004; 190:422-427.

"the mortality rate associated with abortion is 2.95 times higher than that associated with pregnancies carried to term. The study included the entire population of women 15 to 49 years of age in Finland between 1987 and 2000. The researchers linked birth and abortion records to death certificates."

This is crucial. It cannot be done in the US, because this linkage is not done. If a woman were to get an abortion and die, it would be recorded as a death due to sepsis. The abortion would not be included in their medical history. It becomes impossible for medical researchers to do an accurate study of this question, at least in the US and Canada. Hence, Finland.

[giblets]

I already did. Sorry if your reading comprehension has issues.

I can cite all I like, won't make a difference. It's like I'm writing in English and you have a strange gribblese language which is only perceptible to you.

WTF are you talking about? You claimed Plan B has killed women and when I asked for a source you gave me a .pdf about RU-486. Those are different things. RU-486 is Mifepristone while Plan B is a brand name for Levonorgestrel. They are different drugs.

[Ben Kenobi]

Which doesn't change the fact that blood clots are a serious issue for both drugs.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Found what I was looking for.

Gissler M, Berg C, Bouvier-Colle MH, Buekens P. Pregnancy-associated mortality after birth, spontaneous abortion or induced abortion in Finland, 1987-2000. Am J Ob Gyn 2004; 190:422-427.



This is crucial. It cannot be done in the US, because this linkage is not done. If a woman were to get an abortion and die, it would be recorded as a death due to sepsis. The abortion would not be included in their medical history. It becomes impossible for medical researchers to do an accurate study of this question, at least in the US and Canada. Hence, Finland.

Flaws with that study-

1- It records all deaths in the year following the procedure, and finds (among other factors) that women who have abortions are more likely to be murdered. And includes all these coincidental factors in the results.

2- You're being specifically challenged on the "Plan B" safety, which your report doesn't cover.

[giblets]

Which doesn't change the fact that blood clots are a serious issue for both drugs.

I just want a source for your claim that women have died from taking Plan B. If you were confusing Plan B with something else, just say so.

[monolith94]

There are abortions and then there are abortions. I'm no doctor, but it seems plain to me that a pill taken the morning-after, when any hypothetical pregnancy would be in its nascent stage, would be less risky than a traditional abortion carried out later in the pregnancies term.

[Ecofarm]

That's just assuming that drugs are safer than surgery. Perhaps it is a reasonable assumption, I dunno; however, recent drug recalls (and class-action suits) bring that assumption into doubt.

[Al B. Sure!]

ANTI-SEMITISM! As someone who is half-jewish, I feel threatened by this BLATANT act of aggression.

ban him!

That's not going to work, Kuci Jr. Look at my screen-name and I've been here since 1999!

[MikeH]

Unlike Plan B the fact that women have died from childbirth is incontrovertible.

[David Floyd]

So basically, Plan B is safer than childbirth. Less painful, less undesirable side effects, cheaper for both her and me, and the list goes on. I mean, who WOULDN'T wan Plan B?

Also, BK, you still seem to think I forced this solution. Not the case. She brought it up, I obviously consented (not that it mattered, she could do whatever she wanted), and I convinced her to split the cost. Oooh, yeah, obviously that means after raping her I force fed her the pill, in fact, I force fed her two of them just to be safe

[Gibsie]

Nope, I've never once said that. I've said that I am much less at risk for an STD because I generally have safe sex, and generally only with women who have a higher likelihood of being clean. Last night I didn't have safe sex, but at least it was with someone I know to be almost certainly clean (the recent ex of a friend).

Just to try and bring some logic into your way of thinking, but the fact that this girl was an ex of a friend (i.e. you know she's been sexually active recently), and the fact that you know first-hand that she will have drunken sex with someone she probably shouldn't, should probably clue you into the fact you can't use those circumstances as an improvement over average odds.

I mean, seriously... "oh she's probably clean, after all my mate was diddling her last week, then they split up, I diddled her last night, neither of us thought about contraception... she's clearly the kind of girl who would never catch an STD!"...

Also just for my own peace of mind... while you were doing "the act", how many times did you think, "Wait til the guys on Poly hear about this?" It was zero right?

[Flubber]

Ben

I found that Finnish study in a quick and dirty 30 second search BEFORE I posted here. But it doesn't really talk to things caused by abortion versus childbirth.

The fact that they find that women who undergo abortions are 6 times more likley to suffer violent death sounds more like a result of the characteristics of a person that seeks abortion than something caused by abortion.

If you wanted to truly study this stuff, one would have to control for the education, income, pre-pregnancy health etc etc.

ben do you have an actual study???

[David Floyd]

Gibsie,

Yes, it was zero, and yes, it was a bad idea. I think I made that clear from the beginning.

[Elok]

I was under the impression that Plan B is simply a massive overdose of the ordinary pill, and while it can cause a fertilized egg to fail to implant, its general intent is to prevent an egg from being released in the first place. It will not, AFAIK, cause an already-implanted embryo to miscarry. Thus it is not, strictly speaking, an abortifacient, but an emergency contraceptive with a high chance of causing a miscarriage under certain narrow circumstances. The morality of such a drug is debatable, but my current opinion is that it should be legal for the most part.

It is also my opinion that DF acted like a cretin, has acted like a cretin before, and will probably continue to act like a cretin for the foreseeable future. Therefore, he should get a vasectomy or, if he's too cheap for that, arrange to stand next to a malfunctioning X-ray machine for eight hours.

[David Floyd]

How'd I act like a "cretin"? I'm just confused as to what I did that is so far out of line with what anyone else would do.