Apologies to BK. You were right about gay marriages.

[DaShi]

Never late! Not once! Best on east side!

[Robert]

If people are going to get benefits from the state you don't think the state should have criteria? I'm not sure I agree. If I give my daughter allowance, should there not be certain criteria to be followed?
If you want to say that the state has no say, that's fine; but then the state has no obligation on anything, including funds.

??
I think that you don't understand what I'm advocating.
I completely agree with all you say above. And therefore I don't understand why you disagree with me.

The state should set all criteria, and be responsible for the wedding 'ceremony' (the "I do's" and the signing of the docs by the couple) completely itself, and therefore it should also activate it itself.

In the Anglosphere this means not favouring one religion over another. It does not mean banishing religion from the public sphere.

You do stop favouring any religion from any religion if you lift it completely from the religions and do it as the state yourself.

Religion should be banned from the public square.
The church is not there to perform the job of the government.
And the church should have no influence on the job of the government.

Then the church can ban gay marriages, without stopping gays to be married. And people can yell at churches for banning gay marriages. That's freedom.

[Ben Kenobi]

One day I'm going to put the words gay and marriage into the autosensor or ban the topic alltogether. Why are both sides not able to simply drop it?

Just strip Hieuj of his position. It's not right, Plomp, and you need to do something about it.

As for banning the topic, yeah, that's a real solution. Poly is all about free discussion.

[Ben Kenobi]

That's why churches should never perform acts that should be performed by the government.

So why do you permit churches to perform baptisms, to perform confirmations? Marriage is a sacrament, no different from any of the others.

The state should stay the hell away from the church and let them perform marriages. The only problem is that atheists who want marriage to convey secular benefits would ***** and moan.

Frankly, why are atheists participating in a sacrament anyways? You don't believe in it, so why call it marriage? Call it something else, and do whatever the hell you want, but leave us alone. You wouldn't get baptised, so why bother to get married?

[Asher]

Ben, stop hurling personal insults.

[Ben Kenobi]

The government, and only the government, should be responsible for acknowledging marriages or not, because it's the government that is responsible for the laws about marriage.

Bull****. The government should get out of marriage altogether, and let the churches regulate it as they see fit. People want to get married, join a church, and get the priest/pastor to bless you.

If you can't accept that, then don't get married. Shack up, do whatever the hell you want, but separation of the Church and state means that you get the state OUT of the Church rather than having the state regulating the Church.

[Asher]

Now you've crossed the line.

[giblets]

So why do you permit churches to perform baptisms, to perform confirmations? Marriage is a sacrament, no different from any of the others.

Marriage existed long before anyone considered it a "sacrament". While it can have a religious element, it is not inherently religious like, say, baptism. Bottom line it has secular, practical roots and religious folk don't have the right to declare a monopoly on it.

[Wiglaf]

Never late! Not once! Best on east side!

:mad;

I don't know what drugs you take but my Chinese is always cold when it gets here. I assume this is because it spent too much time in the car while the driver posts on Apolyton or protests for Taiwan, but I suppose it is possibly Chinese food is typically refrigerated and served cold on delivery. I have never had a hot Chinese meal, is it because of you?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Frankly, why are atheists participating in a sacrament anyways? You don't believe in it, so why call it marriage?

NEWSFLASH: Marriage has been around before Christianity!!

[Asher]

Nothing existed before Christ.

[Guynemer]

Imran, you should know better.

Fighting Ben with logic is liking fighting Godzilla with a flyswatter. He just ignores it.

[Wiglaf]

That settles it. I am ordering Chinese to night.

[Asher]

Wife?

[Cort Haus]

You wouldn't get baptised, so why bother to get married?

Surely this is a troll.