Apologies to BK. You were right about gay marriages.

[MikeH]

Obama has also said every poor ****** has the right to health care.

Congrats on getting health care.

[Wiglaf]

I am just fed up with girls with vaginas screaming about their rights this and their rights that. YOU CAN'T TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT! YOU CANNOT DO IT!

Newsflash, you big VAGINA, it's not a right. It is privelarge. You could be tricked into thinking so by watching Obama, who thinks it is a right to live in the country illegally and **** goats in Arizona without your PAPERS

[BeBMan]

If Obama says it's a right then it is a right indeed.

[Asher]

Wiglaf, maybe you should go to rentboy.com and hire a fact checker.

[BeBMan]

I'm sure some Fabien or so from rentboy.com can do that as well.

[Wiglaf]

I USED TO GO TO WHITEHOUSE.COM ALL THE TIME WHEN IT WAS NOTHING BUT PORN BUT THE ADDRESS FOR THE REAL WHITEHOUSE IS WHITEHOUSE.GOV.

Big ****ing deal that someone went to 'rentboy' when he was looking for a tour guide or whatever this guy was looking for. It happens. And so what if he got a massage out of the mistake. Since when is turning mistakes into happy times a ****ing crime in this country.

[Asher]

His name is Lucien and his fact-checker is 8 inches

[Wiglaf]

GET OUT OF HEAR! I KNOW FACT CHECKERS. It is a CAREER CHOICE for some middle aged AMERICANS. It is not PROSTITUTIEON.

[Robert]

WHAT is too much to you? Signing off that they did the ceremony? A JP does it if a JP performs the ceremony. Get real.

A church ceremony or any religious ceremony, or even better: any non-governmental ceremony, should not be a way to get an official state marriage status.

Neither should someone be able to marry at work, and let the boss sign a form. The government, and only the government, should be responsible for acknowledging marriages or not, because it's the government that is responsible for the laws about marriage.

I have no problem with church services, or whatever services and ceremonies, but it's all not official. Like the priest is not the one who can judge one of his church members after he committed a crime. He can give the sinner 'heavenly absolution', but not 'earthly'.
A sinner can talk about it with his priest or pastor, but it's the state-appointed judge that judges him.

Seperation of state and church.
And of course, as long as the state has the same view as the church, then there's no visible problem if churches sign off state marriages.
But as soon as there are differences, like now with gay marriages, all kinds of problems arise.

The state should not be responsible for what what happens in church, and the church not for what happens in the city hall. It's very principal to me. (and of course the 'church building' can be used for an official state wedding, it's only a building)

[SlowwHand]

If people are going to get benefits from the state you don't think the state should have criteria? I'm not sure I agree. If I give my daughter allowance, should there not be certain criteria to be followed?
If you want to say that the state has no say, that's fine; but then the state has no obligation on anything, including funds.

[notyoueither]

Seperation of state and church.
And of course, as long as the state has the same view as the church, then there's no visible problem if churches sign off state marriages.
But as soon as there are differences, like now with gay marriages, all kinds of problems arise.

In the Anglosphere this means not favouring one religion over another. It does not mean banishing religion from the public sphere.

The problems arise because some social conservatives do not want gay marriage, regardless of who performs the ceremony or where it takes place. They do not want gay marriage. < Period.

[Nikolai]

"ONLY GOD CAN JOIN MAN AND WOMAN!!! [/protestant zealot]

For a believer, yes. For practical, official purposes, I'd like the French(?) model: State official doing the official business, representative for the couple's religion doing the joining of them before God.

[Nikolai]

Nikolai: that's why churches should never perform acts that should be performed by the government.
Overhere in Holland the official wedding happens in the city hall (or in a fancy place, but always by a civil servant).
You can go to the church to ask God for a blessing, but the marriage is not happening in the church.
I never understood how modern nations like Norway and the USA let churches be the place where you can marry. What happened to the seperation of church and state?

In general, agreed.

So if the churches are under pressure now, then that's only their own fault because all those years they did something they should not have done anyway. The only solution is to give it back to the government and take the Dutch approach.

Thing's not neccessarily that easy.

[DaShi]

Crack addicts, degenerates & even homosexuals can get married in a civil ceremony. The only people forbidden from being wed in a civil ceremony are the under aged & those deemed mentally incompetent.

Also, you can't obviously get married to animals or corpses, but then again I don't think even the most depraved liberal would approve of that.

The Chinese marry corpses. This is the most racist post I've ever seen here!

[Wiglaf]

Chop chop. Do not let your anger make you late for your takeout deliveries.