Left and Right, Here and There

[Ecofarm]

From what I've heard, Khan didn't care about religion (except to mock it) and let people within his land whorship as they chose without state discrimination.

No?

[Drake Tungsten]

We're voting in November to legalize MJ for recreational use in California. That still leaves the problem with the Feds but a case might be made that if a state wants to legalize something with its own borders then the Fed can't do anything about it since it isn't interstate commerce.

Under current interpretation, the Commerce Clause puts almost no limitations on the scope of the federal government's powers. Given that Raich affirmed the federal government's power to ban the use of medical marijuana in states that had approved it, I don't see how a Californian law decriminalizing marijuana for recreational use has a chance in hell of surviving. I personally feel that this state of affairs sucks and is an affront to the Founders' conception of federal power, but you kind of brought it on yourself by supporting a statist Democratic party and the activist judges they put on the federal bench...

[Heraclitus]

From what I've heard, Khan didn't care about religion (except to mock it) and let people within his land whorship as they chose without state discrimination.

No?

You are missing the point.

Mongols also devastated the Islamic world but they didn't really opress Islam per se as far as I recall
(thou a Mongol general did have a soft spot for Christianity if I recall properly, causing Medeival Europeans to come up with all sorts of funny fanfic about the Mongols and Europeans uniting to destroy the Arab states)


Saying someone devastated Orthodox Russia or Confucian China dosen't really mean they represt Orthodoxy or Confucianism.

[Kitschum]

I've found that most of Europe is far more critical of smoking weed than the US (having lived there a couple years). This is especially true in Sweden, where pot is often viewed in the same light as coke.

Pot in Sweden suffers from a generational divide. For young people it's a lot less of a big deal than for their parents. Attitudes are slowly "normalizing" to a European and in lesser respect a Western norm, but they still vary quite a bit on this continent as they do between the west, east and south coasts of the US, for example. I think all that shows are the difficulties of generalizing between "Europe" and "America".

Keeping that in mind, even when Sweden was run by the reddest socialists in the 60/70s there was no pretension to "liberalism" drug or otherwise. Politics was all about fairness and improving outcomes. Drug abuse was considered solely as a disease and a social problem and nobody really asked whether you should have the "right" to smoke hash or shoot heroin "recreationally". A healthy human being would simply not feel the need to poison themselves. Following this philosophy should lead one to try to improve the life of the abuser, i.e. understanding and treatment as opposed to law enforcement and stiffer penalties. Initially such initiatives appeared, but there were countervailing forces that triumphed.

Likewise, the soft pornographic movies that made Scandinavia famous around that time were made possible because of the (Leftist) sexual liberation movement and had precious little to do with 'doing what you want in the bedroom without government interference' or any such attitude. Precisely the opposite, the point was to educate people to a healthy sexuality. Predictably, our Leftists nowadays are more concerned with fighting the 'commercialization' of the human body in today's pornography than producing their own.

What this means for the discussion is that you can very well reach a similar 'practical' freedom of action following very different political paths, whether you start from assuming rights or from a desire to eradicate social ills or what have you.

[Cort Haus]

The thing which makes the US look most right-wing to me is the lack of space for political secularism.

Could an atheist ever be elected president in the US? Can any politician get elected at any level on any ticket if they don't say "God bless America"? I'm not suggesting that European countries are full of hard atheist leadership, but in Britain politics is essential a secular debate.

Maybe I'm mistaken but the apparent lack of (ir)religious freedom seems to compromise the US position as land of the free.

[Drake Tungsten]

I'll take your concerns more seriously when your country no longer has an officially established state religion.

[Felch]

Under current interpretation, the Commerce Clause puts almost no limitations on the scope of the federal government's powers. Given that Raich affirmed the federal government's power to ban the use of medical marijuana in states that had approved it, I don't see how a Californian law decriminalizing marijuana for recreational use has a chance in hell of surviving. I personally feel that this state of affairs sucks and is an affront to the Founders' conception of federal power, but you kind of brought it on yourself by supporting a statist Democratic party and the activist judges they put on the federal bench...

Raich is why we need more and bigger guns in private hands. They're not scared yet.

How can somebody growing a plant and smoking it on their property fall under any reasonable interpretation of "Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes?" There's nothing crossing state lines and there's no commercial activity. I recall that Justice Thomas broke with the majority on those grounds, and he was correct in doing so. **** SCOTUS.

[Cort Haus]

Drake, I can't wait to sweep that away along with the monarchy that is supposed to defend it.

In the real world, the church is practically extinct as a political and social force, with the exception of the influence it still has on over 4,000 schools. Despite this though, Christianity is a minor curiosity and politically irrelevant.

[Drake Tungsten]

Drake, I can't wait to sweep that away along with the monarchy that is supposed to defend it.

Do that, wait 222 years (so you'll have been without an established state religion for as long as America has) and then you can justifiably ***** about the lack of religious freedom in the U.S.

How can somebody growing a plant and smoking it on their property fall under any reasonable interpretation of "Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes?" There's nothing crossing state lines and there's no commercial activity. I recall that Justice Thomas broke with the majority on those grounds, and he was correct in doing so. **** SCOTUS.

QFT

[Barnabas]

Chile has a funny political system

Since the return of democracy after Pinochet, they have been ruled by an alliance of Socialists and Christian democrats, two parties who are often the big left right opposition parties in Europe.

And the opposition party to the Socialist/Christian democrat alliance is a right wing nationalistic pro pinochet party similar to the tories, or the spanish partido popular or the american republicans.

[C0ckney]

is there any credible left-wing opposition?

[BlackCat]

I'll take your concerns more seriously when your country no longer has an officially established state religion.

Drake, only the royalties are affected by this, so your point is moot (it's the same in Denmark).

TBH, your claim is a bit idiotic - any european politician that called for god in a speech would be politically dead, while an american ditto that don't do that are out of the game.

Oh, and Bebro, Kit and Robert gives a very good description of danish politics. Only difference is maybe that we have a legal nazi party that are occationally beaten up by left wing nutters and rediculed by ordinary people.

[KrazyHorse]

I already know you are an empty troll. You have no power.

Sweetheart, you might be the dumbest son of a ***** to join this place since kiddy.

Please, regale us some more with descriptions of your academic "achievents", incredible 2 sigma IQ score and master plan to change the world by becoming a schoolteacher. Afterwards you can explain some orbital mechanics and the understanding of modern physics you've picked up by reading popular accounts.

Dumb ****.

[Elok]

Well you don't really need to opress Orthodox religion to devastate a Orthodox country.

Brutal conquest and supression of dissent work pretty well too wouldn't you agree?

Yeah, I know what he meant, I was just singling out his mention of "Orthodox Russia." Y'know, as opposed to what other Russia? I suppose modern Russia has a lot more atheists, but that's because the commies hammered the faith quite effectively.

[Ben Kenobi]

It was a topic I thought far more interesting than the thread topic.

Oh that General was Hulagu Khan, who actually allied with the Byz against the Muslims. The Franks actually let the Muslims through their territory and helped them defeat the Mongols at Ain Jalut.