13-year-olds climbing Everest

[giblets]

Good thing he'll never have children.

[monolith94]

You could take that same viewpoint on absolutely anything.

"It's my kid. If I want to pimp him, that's my business".
"It's my kid. If I want to lock him in a closet until he's 18, that's my business."

See how it doesn't work?

The difference between what this kid is doing and the two examples you provide are so vast that you outta be ashamed.

If this young kid is capable of reasonable consent, and desires to do it, and his family are supporting him, then I see no problem with this. Free world.

[giblets]

Climbing mount everest seems a lot more dangerous than pimping someone or locking them in the closet.

[SlowwHand]

The difference between what this kid is doing and the two examples you provide are so vast that you outta be ashamed.

If this young kid is capable of reasonable consent, and desires to do it, and his family are supporting him, then I see no problem with this. Free world.

You miss the point, while making the point. Reasonable consent. A 13 year old can't do it. The fact that his parents support him shows that they can't do it either.

[monolith94]

Ben is in favour of 13-year-olds getting married to middle-aged men . You heard it here.

There's a difference between being in favor of an act, and viewing it unfavorably but being in favor of it still being legal.

[monolith94]

You miss the point, while making the point. Reasonable consent. A 13 year old can't do it. The fact that his parents support him shows that they can't do it either.

Reasonable consent varies per actions, however. While I'd say that very few people can qualify as reasonably consenting to being locked up in a closet, as the very act of consenting to such an act would raise the question of a person's mental capacity/state, a great deal more people can reasonably consent to climbing a mountain. And really, if the only threshold for raising the reasonable consent issue is an activity of sufficient danger magnitude (rather than exploitation) the question becomes, where do we stop? In a world where the government can outlaw 13-year-olds from climbing mountains due to risk of death, the government can also outlaw 13-year-olds from playing football due to risk of death/mental injury, etc.

[giblets]

Reasonable consent varies per actions, however. While I'd say that very few people can qualify as reasonably consenting to being locked up in a closet, as the very act of consenting to such an act would raise the question of a person's mental capacity/state, a great deal more people can reasonably consent to climbing a mountain. And really, if the only threshold for raising the reasonable consent issue is an activity of sufficient danger magnitude (rather than exploitation) the question becomes, where do we stop? In a world where the government can outlaw 13-year-olds from climbing mountains due to risk of death, the government can also outlaw 13-year-olds from playing football due to risk of death/mental injury, etc.

Slippery slope

Better to draw an arbitrary line than no line at all.

Let's say you're a parent and some guy makes the following proposition: he'll roll a die, if it rolls a six your child dies, if not you get a million dollars. Are you a good parent if you agree to it?

When someone has a custody of a child, they do not have the right to let the child go off and do something that has a one in six chance of killing them.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

I'd rather climb a mountain than be locked in a closet or pimped out. As I'm sure any kid would.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

There's a difference between being in favor of an act, and viewing it unfavorably but being in favor of it still being legal.

There's another thread on the board you should go read. Go watch Ben defend the legal right of the Vatican to shield men who prey on children from the law.

[monolith94]

Let's say you're a parent and some guy makes the following proposition: he'll roll a die, if it rolls a six your child dies, if not you get a million dollars. Are you a good parent if you agree to it?

In this example, the child has no say whatsoever in the decision, making it irrelevant to the case we are discussing, where we are almost certainly dealing with a child of reasonable intelligence and free will.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Slippery slope

Better to draw an arbitrary line than no line at all.

Let's say you're a parent and some guy makes the following proposition: he'll roll a die, if it rolls a six your child dies, if not you get a million dollars. Are you a good parent if you agree to it?

When someone has a custody of a child, they do not have the right to let the child go off and do something that has a one in six chance of killing them.

The smilies don't change the fact that you're speaking in hypotheticals. There are real world reasons to climb said mountain, and for parents to believe their children should. Maybe if I grew up in the mountains, I'd have been more apt to have climbed one.

Instead, monolith and I lived near the ocean. Know what we did at 13? Went on a really dangerous 1 week camp on a ship called The Spirit of Massachusetts. Without our parents. Its called a "learning experience".

And mountain people would probably call my parents bad parents for making us live on the water so long.

[giblets]

In this example, the child has no say whatsoever in the decision, making it irrelevant to the case we are discussing, where we are almost certainly dealing with a child of reasonable intelligence and free will.

Go ahead, ignore the rest of my post.

Instead, monolith and I lived near the ocean. Know what we did at 13? Went on a really dangerous 1 week camp on a ship called The Spirit of Massachusetts. Without our parents. Its called a "learning experience".

And mountain people would probably call my parents bad parents for making us live on the water so long.

What's the death rate so far?

[monolith94]

There's another thread on the board you should go read. Go watch Ben defend the legal right of the Vatican to shield men who prey on children from the law.

Oh, that's just charming. Under the fifth amendment, the molester in question has the right to try not perjure himself and try to evade punishment (provided he doesn't commit the crime of tampering with evidence, natch) but I don't see how that fifth amendment right could be extended to the church which aids the criminal. Unless the only knowledge that the church has of the actions came through confessionals, in which case the church has special legal confessional protections. I mean, someone can confess to a murder and they're still supposed to keep it secret, right?

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Go ahead, ignore the rest of my post.



What's the death rate so far?

Probably less than those on a mountain. But if you're gonna live in the mountains, surely you should know how to climb them.

But apparently you went and ignored that part of my post.

[monolith94]

The smilies don't change the fact that you're speaking in hypotheticals. There are real world reasons to climb said mountain, and for parents to believe their children should. Maybe if I grew up in the mountains, I'd have been more apt to have climbed one.

Instead, monolith and I lived near the ocean. Know what we did at 13? Went on a really dangerous 1 week camp on a ship called The Spirit of Massachusetts. Without our parents. Its called a "learning experience".

And mountain people would probably call my parents bad parents for making us live on the water so long.

Heh, I remember drawing a night watch at the bow, I was tired and almost drifted off into sleep, which could've easily resulted in me falling over and risking drowning. When I was a little kid, my parents took me to the beach and I got dragged out by an undertow into the ocean, and it was only thanks to quick-reflexed parents that they were able to swim out and help bring me out.

Climbing Mt. Everest is riskier than these activities, to be sure, and it would be a tragedy for one so young to lose his life climbing a mountain, but it's a tragedy for anyone to lose their life climbing a mountain and we don't outlaw mountain-climbing simply because of the tragedies. And when we consider the fact that he's apparently climbed the highest mountains of other continents, we can reasonably guess that he's got enough experience to have as good a chance as many adults.