Lost: Season Six

[Guynemer]

What is WMG?

Also, no.

[rah]

How was he forced to kill Dogen, thus letting Smokey into the Temple?

Self defense. Dogen tried to have him killed twice and would try again. And the bargain locke offered was icing on the cake. I was dissapointed that when Sayid asked him why he didn't do it directly that he just didn't say it was against the rules.

[flash9286]

Well Dogen tried to kill him but the other others presumably didn't have anything to do with it. And he didn't have to kill the loan-sharks; he could have just paid off his brother's loan (I know his brother said he had already paid the sharks the full loan amount, but Nadia seemed to suggest that he hadn't).

[flash9286]

Self defense. Dogen tried to have him killed twice and would try again. And the bargain locke offered was icing on the cake. I was dissapointed that when Sayid asked him why he didn't do it directly that he just didn't say it was against the rules.

Not really self defense, more like retribution.

[rah]

I don't think paying the gangsters off would have been the end of it. There were no guarantees. So yeah, I'm still comfortable with self defense.
As to Dogen, If Sayid hadn't killed him it's quite likely that he would have tried to have him killed again so again, I'm comfortable with self defense.

[flash9286]

Seemed to be that the others couldn't kill Sayid directly, so I don't think Sayid had much to worry about.

[rah]

Considering they tried TWICE, I disagree. But then that's the fun of this show.
Locke's/smokey's argument after Sayid's failed attempt to kill him was quite logical and convincing.

[flash9286]

What I meant was that Dogen could have killed Sayid himself when they were fighting, but he didn't. It seemed like, though I'm not sure, that the others could not kill Sayid directly but had to get someone else to do it (eg Jack, Smokey) and I doubt another lostie would off Sayid. Plus, the others were going to let him leave, and he could have just left.

[rah]

I was dissapointed that when Sayid asked him why he didn't do it directly that he just didn't say it was against the rules.

That why I said that earlier. I don't believe they're allowed to.

And there are a lot of other people in play on the island so there is still potential.

[Drake Tungsten]

Keamy was unarmed.

My point exactly. The old Keamy was so smart as to wear a dead man's switch, while this incarnation didn't even arm himself when dealing with a potentially dangerous stranger.

As for whether Sayid is evil incarnate or not, I think his turn has been done in such a way as to encourage disagreement. Despite all the talk about black & white and good & evil on the show, I think Darlton doesn't want us to be able to pigeon hole characters as clearly good or clearly bad. Sayid was responsible for the deaths of a lot of mother ****ers last night, it's true, but the killings weren't senseless and might even have been justified, depending on your point of view. It was very well done, IMO.

[rah]

As for whether Sayid is evil incarnate or not, I think his turn has been done in such a way as to encourage disagreement. Despite all the talk about black & white and good & evil on the show, I think Darlton doesn't want us to be able to pigeon hole characters as clearly good or clearly bad. Sayid was a responsible for the deaths of a lot of mother ****ers last night, it's true, but the killings weren't senseless and might even have been justified, depending on your point of view. It was very well done, IMO.

I agree 100%
He refused his brother when he asked, claiming he wasn't that kind of man anymore. But fate had other plans. One could also argue that it's not just good vs. evil, but free will vs. fate. (lord knows they've pushed that theme a lot)
Arguments could be made for either. I do like that it's not black and white. Grey makes for a much better story line.

[Felch]

Drake's right about the difficulty in describing someone as good or evil. Think what the response would have been if Sayid had unleashed Smokey on the Others back in Season 2, when they were the villains.

[Drake Tungsten]

I like this hipster theory...

The alterna-verse is the choice Smokey offers. But like any "satanic" choice, it's rife with complication... Nadia comes back, but she's married to Sayid's brother. Locke gets Helen, but can't walk. Jack doesn't have a drinking problem, but he is stuck with a doofus son. Dogen gets his son back, but he's a ***** piano player instead of a baseballer.

Decisions, decisions...

[Krill]

But Sawyer and Hugo? Hugo has the perfect life afterwards, perhaps that is a reward for following Jacob? But perhaps Jack having a son (and being married)...what if the alternative universe definitely happens no matter what, but you only get a good outcome if you sided with Jacob? And we haven't seen much fo Sawyer in the alternate yet, either...

[Drake Tungsten]

But Sawyer and Hugo?

This...

what if the alternative universe definitely happens no matter what, but you only get a good outcome if you sided with Jacob?