How "Christian" of him!!

[Kidlicious]

Christ argues that God has appointed the authorities. Christians are to respect authority provided that said authority does not force them to deny him, or work in opposition to Christ.

To collect tax for a gentile king that is ruling over a foreign land is certainly to sin and therefore to deny the Christ.

And in the end, God established the kingship of the house of Israel according to Godly considerations, out of mercy for the request of his people. I agree, that God's original intention did not involve a King, but he established one.

The people have free will. They would have established a king anywho. But it's a sin, and consequences are involved.

His heart, he valued Christ. Yet Christ did not tell him he was sinful for being a tax collector. Matthew was the same.

Christ didn't have to tell him. It was already written.

[Ben Kenobi]

To collect tax for a gentile king that is ruling over a foreign land is certainly to sin and therefore to deny the Christ.

Christ said that the reason they were ruled by foreigners was punishment for their disobedience.

The people have free will. They would have established a king anywho. But it's a sin, and consequences are involved.

God in his mercy chose to grant them a godly king as that was their wish, even though such was contrary to what God wanted for them.

[N35t0r]

Uh, no. War of 1812 ended that.

They tried to come and take it but they failed.

I was talking about Maryland.

[Wezil]

I was talking about Maryland.

It doesn't matter. Ben hears what he wants.

[Ben Kenobi]

Sorry, I was confused what you meant by 'you'. I thought you were referring to Canada.

As for Maryland, they voted along with the other 13 colonies to join together as the USA. The didn't 'lose jurisdiction', they shifted the jurisdiction from Whitehall to Philadelphia.

[N35t0r]

Yeah. And that jurisdiction goes back farther than the catholic church's presence. So the church still has to follow laws.

[Ben Kenobi]

And that jurisdiction goes back farther than the catholic church's presence. So the church still has to follow laws.

Not really. As I said the Calverts were there in 1620, and founded an explicitly Catholic colony. That's why their flag is the way that it is.

You are right that they still follow laws, but their authority predates that of even the continental congress in America, and most definitely that of the District of Columbia.

Now if you mean following the laws of England, that I can agree with, but even then you have to be careful, because the Catholic church predates even the Crown of England.

[Nikolai]

And Jesus and the Law predates the Catholic Church.

[Ben Kenobi]

He built the Church and the law.

[Dr Strangelove]

I'm aware of that, but the chief is hired by the hospital board. The chief of medical staff is responsible to the board.



Did they do abortions?

Can't say that I'd know that. I was in an internal medicine program. I remember that our hospital did, though it wasn't a Catholic hospital, but it's Ob/Gyn program was affiliated with Johns Hopkins. There were certain procedures even they wouldn't permit, like saline injection abortions, but one of the Ob staff did them in an office he had in my apartment building.

The thing is with tax collectors in Biblical times is they often acted as free agents with little guidance or restrictions. The only thing their superiors cared about is that the state got its quota. If they didn't get their quota then the tax collector might wind up beinf sold into slavery. There was no guarentee that the quotas were accurately based on the local economy. Furthermore, sometimes tax collectors had the legal authority to delcare someone in arrears, hence a debtor, and hence liable to be sold into slavery to one of the tax collectors rich friends. The tax collector could keep any procedes in excess of the amount of tax. Basically tax collectors were often just thugs working to enrich themselves and the state - in that order.

[Dr Strangelove]

Maryland was founded by the Calvarts in 1626, very early. Jamestown was only 20 years prior.

Colony of Virginia didn't occupy all the land from Maryland to Virginia along the coast until 1686.

The original Virginia Company charter pretty much included the entire area of the United States and Canada. In fact Virginia colonists and militia subdued the native americans on both sides of the Potomac river in the 1620's, making settlement of the area possible. The first ships sent by Lord Calvert arrived in 1636 - they contained more Protestants than Catholics. Maryland wasn't a "Catholic Colony", in fact it's Maryland Toleration Act made it the one colony of its time that accepted all trinitarian Christians. Of course, since they were living under English rule, with Anglicans to the south and various Calvinists to the north they rather had to adopt such a policy. Finally the English crown took control of the colony in 1695.

[Imran Siddiqui]

As for Maryland, they voted along with the other 13 colonies to join together as the USA. The didn't 'lose jurisdiction', they shifted the jurisdiction from Whitehall to Philadelphia.

Or rather... gave up jurisdiction to a federal entity

[N35t0r]

Not really. As I said the Calverts were there in 1620, and founded an explicitly Catholic colony. That's why their flag is the way that it is.

They later gave up authority to the british.

You are right that they still follow laws, but their authority predates that of even the continental congress in America, and most definitely that of the District of Columbia.

No, because by your own arguments, britsh authority was inherited by the federal government.

Now if you mean following the laws of England, that I can agree with, but even then you have to be careful, because the Catholic church predates even the Crown of England.

I'm pretty sure the pope at one time recognised the king's rule over England, thus acknowledging his authority over that land, and later after various reforms, including the act of supremacy and Queen Mary's failed attempt to put the church of england back under the pope, thus, again by your own arguments, the church's authority passed over to the british, and after the war of independence, to the federal government.

[Nikolai]

He built the Church and the law.

Good answer.

[Straybow]

[Q=Kidicious;5726382]To collect tax for a gentile king that is ruling over a foreign land is certainly to sin and therefore to deny the Christ.[/Q] No. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's."