How "Christian" of him!!

[Asher]

For the love of God, ban Ben. This is ****ing ridiculous. He's never made a single simple post on this site without lying through his teeth. Enough is enough. He's hateful, he's bigoted, he's mean-spirited, he's retarded, he's spammy, he's disingenuous, he's ignorant, and he's ultimately simply insufferable.

And don't give me that crap about ad-hominems, we've long past that point. We're currently just citing OBSERVABLE AND VERIFIABLE FACTS.

[Solomwi]

You plant the seed and Jesus does the rest. I've had very good christian friends. I never led them away. They planted a seed in me and loved me.

Isn't that the same thing that happens in a homosexual act?

[Kidlicious]

Exactly, but the world is not as it ought to be. That is all I am saying. I am saying it is no different now than it was when Christ was here. Human nature is fundamentally unchanged and remains sinful.

It most certainly is different now than it was before Christ came. Christ radically changed the world just as he said he would. There are now many more to reap the harvest.

Why? I don't get to decide who I work for. Someone hires me. It's their decision, not mine, unless of course I work for myself.

You do God's work for yourself. You reap the harvest. If you give someone a job God will bless you.

They are already breaking the rules Kid. I agree that it's important to hire based on merit, but if I'm a representative of the Catholic church, I want to hire people who love God and the Church, and who want to follow the regulations of the Catholic church, simply becuase they feel it is the right thing to do.

I say you do the most good and hire the best workers. If you can't then the job belongs to someone else.

Why would I want to hire someone who hated the Catholic church, hated all she stood for, and wanted to tear her down? It's silly.

You're the silly one. They ask you if they can help you with your work and you say they want to destroy you.

[Ben Kenobi]

Gay rights groups asking for equal rights does not mean they're asking for favoritism. I guess you think black people were asking for favoritism also when they wanted the right to vote.

Look at the mission statement for Arcus. Arcus is very specific that it has a philosophy which orients everything that it does, and they explicitly reject anyone who teaches that men and women are fundamentally different from one another.

Now, freedom of association means that Arcus is permitted to make these distinctions in who it funds. If the Catholic church has the same freedom of association, this means that they are not required to hire gay people to work for them, just as Arcus is not required to hire Catholics.

When Arcus lobbies hard for a bill arguing that the Catholic church should be required to hire gays and lesbians, that is in and of itself a fundamental tilt in the playing field. You can argue 'equality' all you want, but the end result is that there are special rights, not equal rights.

Freedom of association is not trumped by phantom concerns of equality. Just as the Catholic church has no right to interfere in the workings of Arcus, Arcus has not such right to interfere with the Catholic church and their charities.

[Asher]

Look at the mission statement for Arcus. Arcus is very specific that it has a philosophy which orients everything that it does, and they explicitly reject anyone who teaches that men and women are fundamentally different from one another.

Yes. This is their mission statement, it is obvious how much they are asking for favoritism:

"The mission of the Arcus Foundation is to achieve social justice that is inclusive of sexual orientation, gender identity, and race, and to ensure conservation and respect of the great apes."

Half of their mission goes to nature conservation, the other to LGBT issues.

[Ben Kenobi]

It most certainly is different now than it was before Christ came. Christ radically changed the world just as he said he would. There are now many more to reap the harvest.

Sure, but man is still fundamentally sinful, and must accept Christ in order to be saved. Christ opened salvation to everyone, which is the Good News of the Gospel.

You're the silly one. They ask you if they can help you with your work and you say they want to destroy you.

They aren't asking Kid. They are telling. They are telling me that if I choose not to hire them, I am discriminating against them. I have no requirement to hire anyone, let alone someone who rejects what I believe and what I stand for. For me, the best person for a job is someone I can work with, and someone who loves God. I'm not going to give a job to someone who openly rejects Christ.

Perhaps I'd make more money if I just hired anyone, but I am happy with how things are.

[Ben Kenobi]

"The mission of the Arcus Foundation is to achieve social justice that is inclusive of sexual orientation, gender identity, and race, and to ensure conservation and respect of the great apes."

Half of their mission goes to nature conservation, the other to LGBT issues.

And the mission of the Catholic church is:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

[Asher]

VAW is a public organisation and they have donated over 11 million dollars to Arcus.

Game set match.

Yes, I'm aware that Arcus is a private fund, but they recieved at least 11 million dollars of taxpayer funds in the last year.

It may be more, I will have to see. I'm not a forensic accountant and I have limited resources available to me.

I'm not sure the list means what you think it means.

It looks like a list of grants that are available and their sources. It also details eligibility rules and how to apply...

The description of the page you quoted is:

Current Funding Database
The Current Funding Database provides a synopsis of the currently available fellowships, scholarships, and grants that may be used to address domestic violence, dating violence, sexual violence, and stalking. The funding announcements are arranged by Government Grants for Programs, Private Grants for Programs, Research and Evaluation, Fellowships, and Scholarships.

It is a ****ing index of AVAILABLE GRANTS AND FUNDING from various organization. ARCUS is mentioned as an available PRIVATE GRANT.

This is NOT saying that the government funded the ****ing program, you lying piece of ****ing ****.

[Asher]

And the mission of the Catholic church is:

Quit being an epic ****ing douche for one second of your pathetic, insignificant life.

We're not ****ing talking about the church in this context. You are saying that gay rights activists, and particularly the Arcus foundation, are seeking favoritism and not equal rights. You pointed to their mission statement as proof. I quoted the mission statement which says nothing of the sort.

****ing hell, Ben, ****ing hell.

[Asher]

Never in my life have I ever met anyone so genuinely stupid and oblivious as you, Ben. This is really ****ing unbelievable.

This thread is a perfect example of why you are a worthless human being. You lie, manipulate, mislead, and construct strawmen all while genuinely thinking you're not going to go to Hell (if it exists) and probably that you are helping/educating people. YOU ARE ****ING DELUSIONAL.

You are seriously mentally retarded in some way. You just don't realize it. And I'm not even joking or just trying to insult you here. You are not, in any way, intelligent -- nor will you ever be. You are a hateful, disgusting person that is in direct conflict with the true teachings of Christianity.

You're either going to waste your life living by these "principles" you think are Christian only to discover there is no God and you wasted your life, or there is a God as Christianity defines Him and you're in complete contradiction to his teachings and values...and spend eternity in hell. Either way, good ****ing riddance.

I'm done in this thread, provided I'm not banned for telling it like it is.

[Ben Kenobi]

You are saying that gay rights activists, and particularly the Arcus foundation, are seeking favoritism and not equal rights.

When they lobby seeking to overturn the right of the Catholic church to decide what benefits, if any, it will provide to married couples, and to enforce on the Catholic church, a ruling which would directly violate their explicit mission.

The Catholic church is not asking Arcus to deny funding to gay rights organisations, or to fund the Catholic church, or Catholic missions, or even have a requirement to hire Catholics on their staff.

You pointed to their mission statement as proof.

I did no such thing. I quoted their mission statement as evidence that they only fund those who believe that there are no fundamental differences between men and women. I tire of you twisting up my arguments. Again, if you are going to quote me get it right.

[Ben Kenobi]

It looks like a list of grants that are available and their sources.

Sigh.

Arcus is a private destination, not a source of the grant. For the slow folks, VAW is a government funded organisation that provides benefits to other organisations that they believe that meet their mission statement.

Arcus is on their list of grant destinations, whereby they record the precise amount of 11 million dollars, paid out to Arcus by the VAW folks.

[Ben Kenobi]

You are seriously mentally retarded in some way. You just don't realize it. And I'm not even joking or just trying to insult you here. You are not, in any way, intelligent -- nor will you ever be. You are a hateful, disgusting person that is in direct conflict with the true teachings of Christianity.

You know many people have said so. They've said I'd amount to nothing, and that I would never be anybody. What makes you think you are any different than any of those folks? I've dealt with bullies my whole life, and you are just like them.

You hold me to ideals, that you yourself have no regard for.

You call me liar and a hater and contrary to what Christ teaches, when you propound on how Christ is worthless in the very next sentence. What makes you think that any of your words here have any force on how I choose to conduct myself or live my life?

You're either going to waste your life living by these "principles" you think are Christian only to discover there is no God and you wasted your life, or there is a God as Christianity defines Him and you're in complete contradiction to his teachings and values...and spend eternity in hell. Either way, good ****ing riddance.

Or I will hear good and faithful servant.

This is the season of his nativity. I have no desire to cast fire and brimstone in return. Do this for yourself, Asher. God loves you more than you love yourself, and he's always loved you. He knows what you've been through and suffered, and he wants you to be whole again.

Peace out.

[Asher]

When they lobby seeking to overturn the right of the Catholic church to decide what benefits, if any, it will provide to married couples, and to enforce on the Catholic church, a ruling which would directly violate their explicit mission.

The Catholic church is not asking Arcus to deny funding to gay rights organisations, or to fund the Catholic church, or Catholic missions, or even have a requirement to hire Catholics on their staff.

You are so ****ing dense it is incredible.

I did no such thing.

You ****ing did.

I quoted their mission statement

You ****ing didn't.

as evidence that they only fund those who believe that there are no fundamental differences between men and women.

That's not ****ing in their ****ing mission, which I ****ing quoted.

I tire of you twisting up my arguments. Again, if you are going to quote me get it right.

I'm twisting nothing. You are ****ing lying through your teeth. Even the most BASIC **** that is obvious to ANYONE with a 2nd grade reading comprehension level. For instance, YOU NEVER QUOTED THE ARCUS MISSION STATEMENT. Not only did you NOT do it -- I DID do it, and then you accused ME of twisting YOUR words and not "GETTING IT RIGHT"

Go **** yourself.

[Asher]

Sigh.

Arcus is a private destination, not a source of the grant. For the slow folks, VAW is a government funded organisation that provides benefits to other organisations that they believe that meet their mission statement.

Arcus is on their list of grant destinations, whereby they record the precise amount of 11 million dollars, paid out to Arcus by the VAW folks.

YOU ****ING DOUCHE SCUMBAG.

THAT IS NOT THE LIST OF GRANT DESTINATIONS. IT IS A DATABASE OF POSSIBLE SOURCES OF GRANTS FOR PEOPLE LOOKING FOR THEM. WHY THE **** DO YOU THINK THEY LINK TO THE APPLICATION PROCESSES AND ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA FOR EACH SPECIFIC GRANT LISTED? EVEN THE ****ING SUMMARY OF THE ****ING PAGE SHOULD MAKE THIS PERFECTLY ****ING CLEAR YOU ****ING BUFFOON:

Current Funding Database
The Current Funding Database provides a synopsis of the currently available fellowships, scholarships, and grants that may be used to address domestic violence, dating violence, sexual violence, and stalking. The funding announcements are arranged by Government Grants for Programs, Private Grants for Programs, Research and Evaluation, Fellowships, and Scholarships.

IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER IS THIS SAYING THE LIST OF ORGANIZATIONS ON ITS SITE ARE RECIPIENTS OF THEIR FUNDS. IN FACT, THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL IF YOU ACTUALLY ****ING READ THE SITE BECAUSE MANY OF THE ****ING ORGANIZATIONS ON THE LIST GIVING GRANTS ARE PUBLICLY ****ING FUNDED ALREADY.

THE NUMBER ON THE PAGE IS THE APPROXIMATE AMOUNT OF MONEY EACH GRANT SPECIFICALLY HAS DISTRIBUTED, NOT HOW MUCH THE VAW FOLKS PAID THEM. IN FACT, THAT LIST IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAY IT IS: "a synopsis of the currently available fellowships, scholarships, and grants that may be used to address domestic violence, dating violence, sexual violence, and stalking"

THAT IS NOT A LIST OF RECIPIENTS OF VAW FUNDS

What isn't your major malfunction? Jesus ****ING Christ.