CanPol - Fall election: Do we have an issue yet?

[Wezil]

We didn't you name Peterborough? You were obviously aiming for cities smaller than Toronto yet you missed an urban riding that often votes rural.

[Ben Kenobi]

We didn't you name Peterborough? You were obviously aiming for cities smaller than Toronto yet you missed an urban riding that often votes rural.

I was aiming more at rural/suburban ridings that have become islands in the middle of a tory ocean. Good point about Peterborough though.

Why not Kingston?

[Asher]

It's a college town

[Wezil]

I just checked. Peterborough elected CPC last time out.

Yeah, Kingston has Queens and is a little larger (about 100K give or take). Generally, the larger the city the harder time conservatives have in winning. I suspect they could do well outside Kingston...

The "915" area around TO that you seem to be after may be good ground for the Conservatives to pursue, just don't call them rural.

[Ben Kenobi]

The "915" area around TO that you seem to be after may be good ground for the Conservatives to pursue, just don't call them rural.

Suburban?

[Wezil]

Sure. Many of them are suburbs.


edit - but you didn't mention them. Mississauga, Brampton, Milton, Newmarket...

[Kontiki]

It's 905.

[Ben Kenobi]

I happen to like Paul Szabo.

[Dinner]

That's because you're gay.

[Flubber]

Those would be my ads right there.

1. Young teenager worried about keeping a baby, going to the crisis pregnancy centre who offer to help her out with the essentials.

Caption comes down, which would you rather pay for? 500 dollars for the abortion, or 500 dollars to help her raise the baby? It's your choice.

2. You have a woman going in for her 5th or 6th abortion. Doctor is going down the checklist of reasons. Finally he gets to one that says, "are you emotionally stable?" She rattles off, "this pregnancy is so hard doc, I don't know how I can possibly raise this kiddo." Doc says, great. I can say that you need this abortion because your mental stability is not good. She goes and has the abortion.

3. Back alley abortions.

Have an ad that pans through a random clinic in Quebec. "Abortion clinics in Quebec refused to abide by the same standards as all other clinics". Is this the care that we are all paying for?

Ben those are loser ads-- you don't see that

Number one-- your very position denies the young girl any real choice-- there is money to keep the baby butshe cannot have an abortion is she chooses in the early term

Number two--you really want to say that injury to the "health" is not enough-- all preganancies entail a nonzero risk to the mother--the counter ad to yours shows a headstone and a young woman's photo-- "her doctor said a preganacy risked her health but Harper's abortion board said the risk was acceptable--Vote x so this never happens to your daughter or sister"

Number three-- your concept is laughable on its face-- Since you claim some abortion clinics don't meet certain standards you say its better to cut funding them all--- sorry coat hangar time and desperate dead girls from bleeding when they try to do it themselves

Sorry Ben its a loser issue

[Flubber]

This poll suggests that 49% of Canadians believe "abortion should be legal under all circumstances." In the younger demographic, it goes to 56%. Of people who are university educated, it jumps to 66%. These are the people that will become politically active, and will be influencing votes


Interesting. So you believe that the pov of those who have a university degree is more valuable than those who don't have one? Here's my point. That survey does not ask the question we are debating here. What percent of the population would approve of abortion only after 3 months? Even so, you have nearly 50 percent saying that they want to either outright ban abortion, or only allow abortion in the case of rape or incest. That's a stronger position than the one I've presented here.

Ben your comment doesn't fit the quoted bit in red thst you responded to. The fact that 49%-- ie ALMOST half said they believe abortion should be legal in all circumstances--- FORTY-NINE PERCENT-- Is that a correct number because I cannot go that far-- I am uncertain where my line is but I do agree that if a 36 week old fetus can be extracted safely, I prefer that be the case-- But of the 51% that said that they would like some limits on abortion I am betting that many see those limits as being slight. In the quoted bit I didn't see where it said almost half said abortion only for rape and incest or not at all. In fact the quote bit has almost half allowing abortion in all circumstances-- Did you reverse the facts to suit yourself or is thre red bit incorrect

[Ben Kenobi]

Number one-- your very position denies the young girl any real choice-- there is money to keep the baby butshe cannot have an abortion is she chooses in the early term

What choice does she have now? The only choice they pay for is if she has an abortion.

I think I should be able to choose how my money is spent. Why are we paying for abortions?

Number two--you really want to say that injury to the "health" is not enough

The point is that the system is abused constantly when a health exemption, which the ad hammers home.

the counter ad to yours shows a headstone and a young woman's photo-- "her doctor said a preganacy risked her health but Harper's abortion board said the risk was acceptable--Vote x so this never happens to your daughter or sister"

This is after I've said that an abortion to save the life of the mother is possible when all other avenues have been exhausted.

Everything I have posted is true, and if you ran an ad like that you would be exposed as a liar instantaneously when Harper simply says that an abortion to save the life of the mother is not restricted.

Number three-- your concept is laughable on its face-- Since you claim some abortion clinics don't meet certain standards

I am saying, that these clinics, which we pay for do not care about women, they are unsanitary, unsafe and they refuse to abide by the same health regulations all clinics are required to abide. This is entirely true. They should be required to abide by these same standards or be instantly shut down. I don't see this as a difficult issue.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben your comment doesn't fit the quoted bit in red thst you responded to. The fact that 49%-- ie ALMOST half said they believe abortion should be legal in all circumstances--- FORTY-NINE PERCENT--

And the majority, 51 percent do not support the status quo. They want abortion restrictions, either permitting abortion in the case of rape or incest, or banned outright. 51 percent, flubber 11 points higher than what the Conservatives need to win a majority.

Is that a correct number because I cannot go that far-- I am uncertain where my line is but I do agree that if a 36 week old fetus can be extracted safely, I prefer that be the case-- But of the 51% that said that they would like some limits on abortion I am betting that many see those limits as being slight.

My poll asked that question, and the answer is that the 50 percent line is at 3 months. You might find that offensive or objectionable, but I have not curried up or made up the poll. Those are the numbers. A full third wants to ban abortion outright, and a full third wants no restrictions whatsoever. Another third is in the middle.

In the quoted bit I didn't see where it said almost half said abortion only for rape and incest or not at all. In fact the quote bit has almost half allowing abortion in all circumstances-- Did you reverse the facts to suit yourself or is thre red bit incorrect

The red bit is correct, but you have to click on the survey to see the rest.

[Wezil]

It's 905.

Yes, you are correct.

[Wezil]

This is after I've said that an abortion to save the life of the mother is possible when all other avenues have been exhausted.

This was part of the old system and was one of the reasons the SCC ruled the system violated Charter rights in R. v Morgentaler. Access to these Boards was arbitrary depending on where you lived (with women in remote communities not having equal and timely access). Additionally, these Boards could be arbitrary depending upon the communities they were in (with some Boards refusing virtually all that came before them).

We've been there Ben.