CanPol - Fall election: Do we have an issue yet?

[RGBVideo]

Most people in Canada want restrictions on abortion

Ahhahahhaha

you'd almost think that Ben is a troll, trying to lure people to vote anything but conservatives by sticking his wedge issues, supported only by marginal segments of the voting public, to them

with benkenobi'ing in progress, this looks to become another epic thread

[Flubber]

Ahhahahhaha

you'd almost think that Ben is a troll, trying to lure people to vote anything but conservatives by sticking his wedge issues, supported only by marginal segments of the voting public, to them

Its interesting why he does continually harp on the issues -- where if the issue is CORE to a person, they would already be supporters of the CPC with no real other option

[Ben Kenobi]

you'd almost think that Ben is a troll, trying to lure people to vote anything but conservatives by sticking his wedge issues, supported only by marginal segments of the voting public, to them

Sigh.

Canada has no legal restrictions on abortion. You can get one anytime during pregnancy, even in the 9th month.

I know this isn't the case in Finland.

http://www.lifecanada.org/html/resources/polling/2007PollReport.pdf

When Canadians are asked at what point in human development should the law protect
human life, a total of six in ten say from conception on (30%), after three months of
pregnancy (21%) or after six months of pregnancy (11%). One-third of Canadians (33%)
think human life should receive legal protection only from the point of birth. Five percent
offer no opinion on this question.

There you go. Only 1 in 3 Canadians support the current status quo in Canada. If we were to go with the majority, they would only permit abortion up until the third month.

[Wezil]

Because of course abortion is the #1 issue on the minds of 40%+ of the voting public.

Shake your head Ben. The last person I heard mention abortion was.......... YOU!

[Ben Kenobi]

Because of course abortion is the #1 issue on the minds of 40%+ of the voting public.

The point is the majority of Canadians are not happy with the status quo. Just because you are happy with the way things are doesn't put you in the mainstream.

Shake your head Ben. The last person I heard mention abortion was.......... YOU!

Well I'm sorry that you don't care about it. It's a big issue and a big concern for Canadians.

[Wezil]

We're so concerned we gave Henry Morgentaler the Order of Canada.

The debate's over in this country Ben. Accept it and move on.

[Ben Kenobi]

We're so concerned we gave Henry Morgentaler the Order of Canada.

Well duh, lots of people are hardcore pro-aborts. This is a surprise to you?

The debate's over in this country Ben. Accept it and move on.

Hardcore pro-aborts giving each other awards means that no one cares about abortion? Just the opposite. Why would they crave approbation otherwise? Obviously they do care and they want to be loud and proud about it.

[Wezil]

Well duh, lots of people are hardcore pro-aborts. This is a surprise to you?

Apparently it is to you.


Your character is great Ben. Always wrong on everything. Advice - Punch it up with some humour.

[Ben Kenobi]

Always wrong on everything.

I'd rather be wrong then right than right then wrong. Anyways, I just wanted to refute the point that the majority of Canadians are against abortion restrictions. I feel it's a constituency that would increase the polling numbers for the Conservative party. You are free to disagree, but so far avoiding the issue has netted Harper 0 majorities. People can and do stay home, after all.

[Wezil]

Are you pro-DP as well Ben? Should the CPC bring back that winner as well?

[ShaneWalter]

I'd rather be wrong then right than right then wrong. Anyways, I just wanted to refute the point that the majority of Canadians are against abortion restrictions. I feel it's a constituency that would increase the polling numbers for the Conservative party. You are free to disagree, but so far avoiding the issue has netted Harper 0 majorities. People can and do stay home, after all.

This issue about restrictions on abortions is one that is brought up by social conservatives fairly often. It is true that there is nothing in the criminal code of Canada banning abortions after a certain period of time. I've talked to my mom (an RN) about this before, and she's said that it is a non-issue. There doesn't need to be a law against late term abortions because a doctor performing an abortion past the point of viability would be censured by his professional association.

Saying "there should be laws restricting abortion" is like saying "there should be laws mandating the minimum amount of time a doctor can schedule for various surgical operations." There's just no need, a doctor making mistakes because he rushes his operations will eventually lose his license. Same with a doctor performing abortions past the point of viability.

[Ben Kenobi]

Are you pro-DP as well Ben? Should the CPC bring back that winner as well?

No, I'm not pro-DP. I'm one of those weird seamless garment folks.

[Ben Kenobi]

This issue about restrictions on abortions is one that is brought up by social conservatives fairly often. It is true that there is nothing in the criminal code of Canada banning abortions after a certain period of time.

Are you aware that the Canadian Government paid to have late term abortions done in the states at Tiller's clinic in Kansas? It is very much an issue, and will become a greater issue as time goes on.

There doesn't need to be a law against late term abortions because a doctor performing an abortion past the point of viability would be censured by his professional association.

Your mom is wrong, unfortunately. Canadian abortionists are in no way censured by their professional association for performing an abortion whether it is early or late term. I'm hard pressed to think of any abortionist who has ever been stripped of his license here, even though late term abortions are done.

[Flubber]

I feel it's a constituency that would increase the polling numbers for the Conservative party. You are free to disagree, but so far avoiding the issue has netted Harper 0 majorities. People can and do stay home, after all.

I feel you are dead wrong-- Its no win for Harper-- If he raises it , he has to have a position. Little other than outright banning it at all times for all reasons would satisfy the far right (maybe exceptions for rape and health of the mother)

the rest of the people want some restrictions on abortion. This implicitly means that these people are at least ok with abortion being legal at some point. I tend to think that a person who accepts that a 12 week fetus may be aborted is NOT going to be super passionate (to the point of changing a vote even) about the idea that abortion at 13 or 15 or 18 weeks should be illegal. The difficulty and nuance of having such a position makes it harder to think it will be so vehemently held.

Do I think a lot of canadians are uncomfortable with the thoughts of abortion casually used as birth control? Of course yes-- I don't think anyone sees abortion as desirable or a positive thing.

Do I think that most Canadians support some limits on abortion-- Again yes I can see that. Aborting a completely viable fetus at 36 weeks makes absolutely no logical sense after all

But for harper to try to capture this supposed constituency, he would have to support partial limits on abortion and be able to explain it to the electorate so the fear-mongers don't start in with the threat that this is "only the start"-- meanwhile his base would get worked up on the issue again and be asking why THEIR party wasn't supporting a total ban.


I truly see this as an issue where the CPC could only lose votes. So ben show me the position that Harper takes on this issue that garners him votes

[Ben Kenobi]

Little other than outright banning it at all times for all reasons would satisfy the far right (maybe exceptions for rape and health of the mother)

Actually, a full third believe that it ought to be banned outright with no exceptions except for the life of the mother. If the far right comprises 33 percent of the electorate, this is a compelling position. It's about the same as those who favour the status quo. Another third is in the middle and want to see some restrictions, with the majority preferring it at 3 months or so.

Personally, I would be satisfied with a bill from harper barring all abortions done past the three month period, and removing abortion from the list of medically funded services. It is an elective procedure, and the majority of the electorate is not in favour of tax payer funded abortion.

The difficulty and nuance of having such a position makes it harder to think it will be so vehemently held.

It's a compromise at it's heart similar to the Missouri Compromise in 1850.

But for harper to try to capture this supposed constituency, he would have to support partial limits on abortion and be able to explain it to the electorate so the fear-mongers don't start in with the threat that this is "only the start"-- meanwhile his base would get worked up on the issue again and be asking why THEIR party wasn't supporting a total ban.

The big issue is removing the funding, which would bring us in line to the laws in the US. I will be controversial, but it will benefit Harper. The thing is to remember that there is a third who have vested interest and they will fight this tooth and nail, and they will be loud and vocal, but they are only a third. Harper gains if he can get 40 percent plus one on his side, and I think he can pull it off.

As for the base who want it banned outright, many of those people already are sitting out. They have lost faith in Harper. They will see it as an encouraging sign that he is doing something to rectify a situation that ought to have been addressed 15 years ago.