[serious] Off Topic Moderation Input - Part 2

[Ben Kenobi]

Can you take your argument about Wilberforce back to whichever thread it came from

Ok, done. Thanks MikeH.

[MikeH]

Can you take your argument about Wilberforce back to whichever thread it came from and accept the point that there will be situations where "I am just quoting facts" isn't going to be an acceptable defence, where the facts are deliberately skewed to make a prejudicial point that contravenes our guidelines.

It should also be clear that I haven't said anywhere that anything Ben has said on this particular conversation was unacceptable. Which is why I can't understand why he is trying to persuade me it's acceptable. Maybe he thinks it's something I will consider unacceptable?

[kentonio]

Whatever dude. That's.. like, your opinion, man.

I'd be happy to make a poll and see just how prevalent that opinion is if you like?

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't know why I make the mistake of trying to talk to you like a human being. You're a lying, racist little **** who belongs in a classroom about as much as Michael Jackson belonged at a child's sleepover.

Whatever dude. That's.. like, your opinion, man.

[kentonio]

I don't know why I make the mistake of trying to talk to you like a human being. You're a lying, racist little **** who belongs in a classroom about as much as Michael Jackson belonged at a child's sleepover.

[Ben Kenobi]

..

[Ben Kenobi]

Top tip for not getting banned - address the moderator's point, not a strawman.

Where did I misrepresent your position with a strawman? If so, I apologize.

'facts' as you provided them in that post above are similarly leading in intent

And what exactly is the intent that you perceive? What do you believe I'm really trying to say here?

[kentonio]

Wilberforce was not a super hero, and in fact did not 'shut down the slave trade'. That's pretty retarded even for you. He led a campaign to abolish slavery based around the premise that the slavery being carried out by white folks in vast numbers was repugnant and immoral.

You are correct that slavery has never been a purely white on black pastime, however given that whites were the ones doing it right up until the 19th century and in simply vast numbers, you should probably stop being a racist apologist ****. You can probably also extend that to all the other things you're offensively wrong about too.

Then again, being that you're a fundamentalist Catholic, it's understandable that you don't really have a problem with the enslavement of other races.

In 1452, Pope Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas, granting the kings of Spain and Portugal the right to reduce any "Saracens, pagans and any other unbelievers" to perpetual slavery, legitimizing the slave trade as a result of war.

[MikeH]

Top tip for not getting banned - address the moderator's point, not a strawman.

[Ben Kenobi]

I would say the 'facts' as you provided them in that post above are similarly leading in intent.

Wilberforce was a white dude and he successfully shut down the slave trade. That's a historical fact. It's also a historical fact that many black folks did engage in slavery and successfully enslaved White folks.

If one wants to blame white folks for what they did wrong, shouldn't we also credit them for what they did right? And the same for black folks?

[MikeH]

The way you use 'facts' to represent an argument can still be racist.

e.g. the following statement is a fact:

"Ben Kenobi has never apologised on Apolyton for being a racist"

However it is a fact with strong implications and I suspect you'd argue with the way the fact was phrased. You will note that in that phrase I haven't said you are a racist, I've just said you haven't apologised for being one.

I would say the 'facts' as you provided them in that post above are similarly leading in intent.

[Ben Kenobi]

Was that before or after your diatribe about black people being the cause of slavery and how they were saved by the white folks?

All I said was that while White people didn't start slavery, white people were the ones who ended it. Both statements are historically true. Last I checked, Wilberforce was a white dude. Slavery existed long before Europe became influential, and in many cases, Europeans were taken as slaves by black folks where the European military was not strong enough to drive them off. Examples abound... Facts are stubborn things, Kentonio.

[kentonio]

I said that if a black person isn't happy with where they are in life, that they should quit blaming white folks and look at themselves. Same thing Bill Cosby said, btw.

Was that before or after your diatribe about black people being the cause of slavery and how they were saved by the white folks?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben's racism is getting out of hand. I think it's time for another vacation.

I said that if a black person isn't happy with where they are in life, that they should quit blaming white folks and look at themselves. Same thing Bill Cosby said, btw.

[MikeH]

Ben's racism is getting out of hand. I think it's time for another vacation.

What's he said now?