[serious] Off Topic Moderation Input - Part 2

[SlowwHand]

Ban you. You illustrate Ben's point to perfection. You do the same to me, but I've had worse than you on my eyeball, so I don't care.
Sava needs to go, too. I can't believe Ben got banned, DFG got banned, but this insulting little snot nosed psychopath stays.

[DaShi]

Please ban Ben.

[giblets]

plz plz plz make Ben moderator of the Sports Forum or somehing. Hilarity will ensue.

[Ben Kenobi]

MikeH is doing a good job. You said so yourself.

I did. He even asked if I wanted the thread(s) bashing me closed, as I'd not filed a complaint. I think he's done a good job. I've been a moderator before. It's not an easy job.

[giblets]

MikeH is doing a good job. You said so yourself.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben is too stubborn to listen to moderators. You might as well ban him now.

That's one ugly cheerleader.

[giblets]

lol Ben is too stubborn to listen to moderators. You might as well ban him now.

[Ben Kenobi]

The other thing to think is that if we aren't Catholics; and even the Catholics aren't as hard line as you; we don't believe in most of the things you are talking about.

I tend not to base my arguments around, "Jesus said x, you must obey." I understand this, it still doesn't change what I posted about sin in general which is a different topic. You yourself have argued that many things are wrong (lying, etc), so I really don't see why you have a problem with that preposition that everyone sins and is hurt by the sins of others.

People should be free to go about their lives without someone persistently telling them that they are fundamentally wrong because of their sexuality

That's not what I'm saying. You believe that 'sexuality is a core part of who you are'. I do not. You are interpreting my arguments based on your assumptions. This goes both ways. I do not believe that people are defined by what they do - which is a core teaching of Christianity that people can overcome sin.

They are doing absolutely no harm to anyone by being themselves.

Yet, you believe that I am harming them simply by being myself and speaking my mind. If I were to take your line on things - I could just as easily argue harm is being done to me.

You are deliberately setting out to persecute and harm them.

Well, then. Do you reject the Christian principle, "love the sinner hate the sin?"

That is absolutely meaningful and a clear distinction.

I absolutely believe that the rights of people to not be persecuted or discriminated against trumps any religious belief.

Which is why you're supporting discrimination of religion.

Just as I wouldn't think it was acceptable for someone to stone a woman to death for religious reasons. If your beliefs contradict the law, the law wins. In Europe we have strong anti-discrimination laws, and it is the spirit of these that is written into the website rules.

There was an article a short while back citing a Christian newscaster who was banned from wearing a cross because 'it might offend people'.

Is this really what Poly is going to do? Ban everyone who displays a cross? Sure, europe has many laws that attack Christianity. I agree with this. Where I disagree is that the laws are correct. They are not. Nor are they 'non discrimination', when they objectively discriminate against Christian teachings.

Also on the subject of people abusing you - I've stepped in a few times recently when things crossed a line, I've given Sava a strong final warning. I look at all the things you report. I don't see every thread. It is not safe to assume I've seen something, even if I'm posting in a thread. I have a buy work and home life and don't intend to spend any more of my time here than I already do.

I'm a big boy, Mike. I am not insisting that you spend all your time doing this, and my post was not intended as a criticism of your moderation. I think you are doing a good job.

I just want to have a clear idea as to precisely what I can or cannot post. I'm not a mindreader, Mike.

Again, we've had this discussion previously, and it was determined then that posting Christian teachings regarding gay marriage does not run afoul of the rules here. If that has changed, then it needs to be done openly so that everyone is aware of the change.

Has the previous rule now changed, Mike?

If someone followed you around posting anti-deaf abuse in every thread that mentioned hearing I'd have the same conversation with them.

Well, I think 'deaf child rapist' kinda qualified...

There are more gay posters here than deaf posters, which I guess is why deaf issues posts don't come up very often.

I would wager there's been more deaf slurs directed at me than anti-gay slurs. It makes sense that you'd get more complaints by people angry at me - because there are more people involved.

[MikeH]

The other thing to think is that if we aren't Catholics; and even the Catholics aren't as hard line as you; we don't believe in most of the things you are talking about.

"Everyone is hurt by sin" is absolutely meaningless. People should be free to go about their lives without someone persistently telling them that they are fundamentally wrong because of their sexuality, They are doing absolutely no harm to anyone by being themselves. You are deliberately setting out to persecute and harm them. That is absolutely meaningful and a clear distinction.

I absolutely believe that the rights of people to not be persecuted or discriminated against trumps any religious belief. Just as I wouldn't think it was acceptable for someone to stone a woman to death for religious reasons. If your beliefs contradict the law, the law wins. In Europe we have strong anti-discrimination laws, and it is the spirit of these that is written into the website rules.

Also on the subject of people abusing you - I've stepped in a few times recently when things crossed a line, I've given Sava a strong final warning. I look at all the things you report. I don't see every thread. It is not safe to assume I've seen something, even if I'm posting in a thread. I have a buy work and home life and don't intend to spend any more of my time here than I already do.

If someone followed you around posting anti-deaf abuse in every thread that mentioned hearing I'd have the same conversation with them. There are more gay posters here than deaf posters, which I guess is why deaf issues posts don't come up very often.

[MikeH]

Ben - there are so many (deliberate) misreadings, strawmen, logical fallacies, leaps and just sheer nonsense in your response that I just don't have the time, energy or inclination to respond to it line by line.

I think it was clear that I was referring to you posting in most threads pertaining to gay issues. I'll edit my post to make that clear and then please read what I actually posted again and try and understand it.

[Wezil]

If everyone who couldn't stand your posting left, there'd be virtually no-one here.

*looks around*

Too late on that barn door.

[Ben Kenobi]

Your Pope has recently said that you should be talking about the positive messages not banging on about the negative things like Homosexuality all the time.

Francis has also said that homosexuality is a sin. Do you want me posting direct from the catecism? Because I can do that if you'd like to prefer.

Why can't you listen to him? You also chose that religion, and you choose to agree with the intolerant messages and you choose to spend a huge amount of your time posting about it. THAT really is a choice.

Do people start threads concerning other things that Christianity regards as sinful?

You might not have started a thread but whenever one of these subjects comes up, you have to weigh in.

Homosexuality is a huge and controversial topic. That I would spend a significant portion of my time talking in response to it is not a surprise. If people didn't start threads on homosexuality then it wouldn't be as big an issue here.

I have refrained from starting topics on it myself, because I understand your concerns. If other people start them, then I see it as fair game.

You know your bigoted views are hurting our gay posters, but you feel you still have to inflict them on them, in every thread you possibly can.

Right. Do people take my feelings into account before they post? No. Should you be banning people because they said something to hurt my feelings? Also no. This is not directed at any one individual - this is a general statement. Does Christianity teach sodomy is sinful? Yes. Everyone is hurt by sin. You, me, etc. Do I like it when people preach to me about my sins? Of course not. But I recognize the reason that they are doing so is that they want me to become a better Christian.

How much of your time do you spend on this one small topic compared to all other Christian teachings put together?

How many threads do people start on it? I don't start the threads, MikeH.

At the moment some of our gay posters feel like they are being persecuted by your intolerance in every thread they post in.

Do I post about homosexuality in every thread, or is this an exaggeration? If the concern is keeping it to one thread, then fine. I can do that.

Do you really care so much about making peoples lives miserable that you have to spend so long abusing them here? Can't you just let most of the threads go without posting?

Is the concern that I like to post in most threads, or is the concern that I post about homosexuality?

If everyone who couldn't stand your posting left, there'd be virtually no-one here.

And I could hit the abuse button ten times a day if I wanted to. I'm aware that a significant number of people hate me here. I don't see any way that this will change. As was commented earlier - I could post that 'water was wet', and people would complain.

My non-controversial thread on Armistice day had calls for my banning Mike - there was nothing in there about gay marriage and homosexuality. You saw the thread. There was absolutely not a thing in there about harrassment - to anyone. Look at the posts from the other posters. How many of them are the same folks you are getting complaints from, MikeH? I don't know, but you do.

Am I really the problem here? If folks refrained from posting, "Ben is an evil, evil man", would that change things? The gratuitous posts even in threads I haven't posted.

[Ben Kenobi]

Maybe they shouldn't stick their dicks in men's asses if they don't want to get AIDs", that's not you 'posting Christian teachings on homosexuality', that's just you being a total ****.

Fine. Is the statement that sodomy is a significant disease vector for AIDS a bannable offense?

[MikeH]

There's a difference between say a discussion about Christianity's position on homosexuality, and you following gay posters around trying to make them feel attacked.

When you repeatedly post things like "Maybe they shouldn't stick their dicks in men's asses if they don't want to get AIDs", that's not you 'posting Christian teachings on homosexuality', that's just you being a total ****.

Yeah, good summary.

[MikeH]

I haven't banned you have I?

Your Pope has recently said that you should be talking about the positive messages not banging on about the negative things like Homosexuality all the time. Why can't you listen to him? You also chose that religion, and you choose to agree with the intolerant messages and you choose to spend a huge amount of your time posting about it. THAT really is a choice.

You might not have started a thread but whenever one of these subjects comes up, you have to weigh in. What I have suggested many times before is that you just ignore those topics, and focus on other ones. You know your bigoted views are hurting our gay posters, but you feel you still have to inflict them on them, in every thread you possibly can.

How much of your time do you spend on this one small topic compared to all other Christian teachings put together?

My view is this :

Your beliefs, whilst offensive, are up to you, I feel that you being able to talk about them and us being able to robustly refute them is important.

At the moment some of our gay posters feel like they are being persecuted by your intolerance in every thread they post in. There must be a balance, you have put your views across, many, many times. We get it. Do you really need to state them in every thread where anything to do with homosexuality is mentioned? Do you really care so much about making peoples lives miserable that you have to spend so long abusing them here? Can't you just let most of the threads go without posting?

There must be a balance. The current balance is far from right.

If everyone who couldn't stand your posting left, there'd be virtually no-one here.