Support for same sex marriage grows... ever stronger

[Lorizael]

Why is Richard Dawkins so smart and yet so stupid about Christianity? Apolyton has some huge blind spots, and gay marriage is one of them.

Richard Dawkins is a biologist. I wouldn't expect him to know anything about Christianity. You, iirc, are a historian, and I wouldn't expect you to know anything about gay marriage. Apolyton, on the other hand, has a vast number of experts on a vast number of subjects, and I doubt very much that it has very many blind spots. Care to tell us why you are such an expert on the subject of homosexuality?

I tend to argue in favour of the government because I believe their position is superior to the position that we should allow gay marriage too. Black Dragon and I have also discussed the topic at length. He always argued that government should get out of marriage altogether, and I usually argued that the government had every right to intervene. I've always had quite a bit of sympathy for BD's position, but again, would rather fight the government's position over my own.

That is to say, you compromise your principles when it suits your purposes.

I do give a damn about it. It bothers me greatly.

But it doesn't bother you enough for you to have a consistent position.

I think you need to step back and ask yourself why you are arguing with me on what I believe, and just sit down and listen some.

I don't care what you believe. You're allowed to have whatever stupid beliefs you wish. The problem is that your beliefs are inconsistent and hypocritical, and that bothers me.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why should I have to pay higher taxes becasue of religious tax breaks.

You shouldn't. I don't believe you should pay income taxes at all.

I'll bet those tax breaks are far bigger than the cost of the time public servants dedicate to performing marriages... So again... yet another stupid comment/argument on your part.

Gee, that means research on your part to back up your argument. Good luck.

[Ming]

Why... you never prove any of your statements. And mine are least rational and logical, unlike your lame claims.

And as far as your response to the tax point, irrelevent.
You are the one claiming how gay marriages would cost you money. Well... religions cost the tax payers money as well.. that's money out of my pocket... so even at best. What you would lose, you gain because your church doesn't need to ask you for more.

[rah]

Then stop saying you don't want to pay for gay marriages as part of your arguement why they shouldn't be allowed to marry. OK
We don't want to pay for yours, but that ain't going to change despite your believe about taxes(which is immaterial).

I know you're must moving the goal post yet again with your latest defeat, which you will claim victory on.


So you haven't masterbated once since becoming a christian?

[Ben Kenobi]

Richard Dawkins is a biologist. I wouldn't expect him to know anything about Christianity. You, iirc, are a historian, and I wouldn't expect you to know anything about gay marriage. Apolyton, on the other hand, has a vast number of experts on a vast number of subjects, and I doubt very much that it has very many blind spots.

How many theologians do we have here?

Care to tell us why you are such an expert on the subject of homosexuality?

On the medical consequences, you'd have to ask folks like Doc Strangelove. I don't claim to be an expert on the topic, but neither then are the fanboys experts either. I have done some work with demography and social sciences, so I do have a bit more then most folks.

That is to say, you compromise your principles when it suits your purposes.

Oh, so I'm not allowed to argue a position that I believe is more right then another position which I believe is more wrong?

But it doesn't bother you enough for you to have a consistent position.

My position is consistant. No funding for any of them. So is the government's position, no funding for gay marriage. So is the support for gay marriage. Consistancy isn't the issue here. All three positions are consistant.

The issue is the underlying assumptions. Gay marriage folks assume:

1. Marriage is a right.
2. Sexual Orientation is fixed from birth, just like race.
3. Sexual desire is a natural function.

Therefore, barring homosexuals from getting married is wrong.

The state assumes.

1. Marriage is a privilege.
2. Sexual Orientation is Fixed.
3. Sexual desire is a natural function.

They disagree with the first argument.

My own position is that:

1. Marriage is a privilege.
2. Sexual orientation is fluid.
3. Sexual desire is not a natural function.

I agree with the government that marriage is not a natural right, which is why you find me arguing that over and over. However, I disagree that sexual orientation is fixed, and that sexual desire is a natural, uncontrollable function.

I don't care what you believe. You're allowed to have whatever stupid beliefs you wish. The problem is that your beliefs are inconsistent and hypocritical, and that bothers me.

How are my beliefs inconsistant?

[rah]

From you own damn post which you say is your guiding principle.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

THEY NO NOT CHOOSE THEIR HOMOSEXUAL CONDITION.
SO do you accept the cannons of the church or not?

[Ben Kenobi]

Why... you never prove any of your statements. And mine are least rational and logical, unlike your lame claims.

It's your argument.

I've even taking the courtesy in not attacking the latent keynesian assumption that tax cuts lead to higher taxes.

And as far as your response to the tax point, irrelevent.

It's entirely pertinent.

You are the one claiming how gay marriages would cost you money.

They do. We have extensive government benefits.

Well... religions cost the tax payers money as well.

Again, a Keynesian assumption that tax breaks cost you money, when just the opposite is true. Tax cuts save you money.

Look at it this way. If you cut taxes for everyone else, besides yourself, you make more because other people have more of their own money to spend. Your business will be more profitable. Your income will go up, not down.

What you would lose, you gain because your church doesn't need to ask you for more.

In funding gay marriage? I believe in funding it that it makes me an accessory.

[Asher]

2. Sexual orientation is fluid.

So your sexuality is fluid? Guys can turn you on?

[Ben Kenobi]

THEY NO NOT CHOOSE THEIR HOMOSEXUAL CONDITION.

I don't choose my hearing. It doesn't mean that my hearing cannot be fixed.

SO do you accept the cannons of the church or not?

It's like an alcoholic, which is an analogy I've used for a long time. An alcoholic even when dry desires to drink. A homosexual man likely will always have these desires for men. It doesn't mean that these desires cannot be controlled. Their condition is the desires, their choice as always, is to act on them.

[rah]

I see now that he's been proved the village idiot again he's changed the focus of the arguement to another side trail. WHen the church gives up it's exempt status you can start saying you don't want to pay for gay marriages, but until then.....................

[Ming]

In funding gay marriage? I believe in funding it that it makes me an accessory.

Then you are already an accessory to murder... because your taxes fund wars and black operations by the government... you're going to hell any way then using your own logic. Enjoy your eternal torture. There is no saving your soul now... and your own words damn you.

[Asher]

Can we please focus on Ben's admission of being bisexual?

Do you think I'm cute, Ben?

[rah]

THis isn't about alcholics and it isn't about your hearing impairment either. They're allowed to marry and so are you, so stop any comparisions. Its about gays made by god that you've been told to respect because he made them that way. Which you ignore. But say you're following the cannons of the church. Wrong, and you're nothing but a hypocritical bigot and obviously not a true christian. I'm a much better christian to you because I'm actually following gods word and respecting them.

[Ben Kenobi]

So your sexuality is fluid? Guys can turn you on?

No, they don't. I know plenty of people including yourself who've swung both ways.

[Ming]

You're going to Hell Ben... enternal torture... Your own words convict you.
I can hear the screams now...