Support for same sex marriage grows... ever stronger

[Ming]

Where have I argued that my beliefs ought to be enforced in law? I do believe in live and let live, and that everyone should be free to be with whomever they love. I just don't believe the government should be dictating things.

You are asking the goverment to continue to dictate against gay marriages... You are asking that your narrow minded views be enforced by laws to not allow gay marriages.

If you really believed in "live and let live" you wouldn't have a problem with gay marriages since they don't impact your ability to marry who you want in a church of your choosing.

Jesus would not be happy with you. "Let God be the Judge... not you"

[Ming]

And one last thing Ben...

Of my money going towards their marriage? I wouldn't want anyone to pay for my marriage except me. So I guess you could say I believe it would be wrong to accept money taken from other people to fund my life choices.

Could you explain this one... since it makes no sense what so ever. What the hell are you talking about?

[Ben Kenobi]

Could you explain this one... since it makes no sense what so ever. What the hell are you talking about?

Justices of the peace are public servants. We all pay their salaries. Clerics/priests/pastors are all paid by their respective congregations.

Why are Christians having to pay so that atheists can get married?

[Ben Kenobi]

You are asking the goverment to continue to dictate against gay marriages...

I am against further expansion of government interference in relationships.

You are asking that your narrow minded views be enforced by laws to not allow gay marriages.

You are demanding that the government and all of us pay for something we personally disagree.

I'm insisting that it shouldn't be crammed down our throats, anymore then you would like to be paying for pastor's salaries so that Christians could get married on the public dime like atheists do.

If you really believed in "live and let live" you wouldn't have a problem with gay marriages since they don't impact your ability to marry who you want in a church of your choosing.

I do believe in live and let live. Let them have their relationships, but don't make me pay for them out of my pocket, and don't tax me to fund their benefits. Live and let live is contrary to this whole idea of government benefits for marriage.

Jesus would not be happy with you. "Let God be the Judge... not you"

God rained fire on Sodom. I'd rather not get caught in the crossfire.

[rah]

Through their tax exempt status, we're indirectly paying for clerics/priests and pastors.

[Lorizael]

Why are Christians having to pay so that atheists can get married?

Because the state has a vested interest in supporting marriage, with which you have no problem.

I said, "government has a vested interest in supporting marriage between a man and a woman." I also argue that the government doing so is neither discriminatory nor unconstititional.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why would a whole bunch of really smart people on Apolyton be so wrong about your beliefs?

Why is Richard Dawkins so smart and yet so stupid about Christianity? Apolyton has some huge blind spots, and gay marriage is one of them.

Is it, perhaps, because you constantly use the argument that the government's vested interest in marriage is a reason why gay marriage should not be allowed? And wouldn't that argument suggest that you support the government's vested interest in straight marriage?

People aren't all that interested in my personal beliefs to be frank, and they usually don't get to the point of asking, why is Ben defending government interference in marriage? No, they are too busy frothing at the mouth to ask questions about me.

You've started a fair number of threads on gay marriage in the past, Ben. I looked through the archives and found them. But I didn't find a single thread you started in which you discuss your opposition to the government's monetary involvement in the institution of marriage. There's no reason why anyone would believe this to be your stance.

Berzerker is quite aware of it, but that's because he's a libertarian and we've discussed that particular argument in the past. I tend to argue in favour of the government because I believe their position is superior to the position that we should allow gay marriage too. Black Dragon and I have also discussed the topic at length. He always argued that government should get out of marriage altogether, and I usually argued that the government had every right to intervene. I've always had quite a bit of sympathy for BD's position, but again, would rather fight the government's position over my own.

Honestly, very few Polytubbies are libertarians.

And why is that? Because you're quite content to let people believe that you do support government involvement in marriage.

Why have I been so strenuous to argue against the position now when the question has been raised as to my personal opinion? It's the same with pacifism. I am a pacifist, but I'll often find myself arguing on the government side of things in opposition to those who believe that this war is wrong, but other ones are perfectly ok.

You don't really give a damn about the fact that the government's money goes toward supporting marriages it has an interest in.

I do give a damn about it. It bothers me greatly.

I think you need to step back and ask yourself why you are arguing with me on what I believe, and just sit down and listen some.

[Ben Kenobi]

Through their tax exempt status, we're indirectly paying for clerics/priests and pastors.

Seeing as I believe income tax to be unconstitutional, yeah I'm really buying that argument.

[Kontiki]

Maybe other jurisdictions are different, but I got married by a JP in BC and I had to pay for it out of pocket.

[Ben Kenobi]

Then why doesn't the state do so for Christians as well?

Really, the state is the church for atheists, except they make everyone pay tithes.

[rah]

Whether you believe it or not, gays are helping support your clergy so find a different arguement. Which means they're supporting your marriages. I guess it's only fair that you support theirs.

I'm sure that are very few in any church calling out for their exempt status to be revoked.

[Kontiki]

Why doesn't the state do what for Christians?

[Ben Kenobi]

Then the church should give up it's tax excempt status, because otherwise indirectly we would be paying for your marriage. Well maybe not me in a different country, but all the gays in yours.

I think everyone should be exempt from income taxes. Why would I support increased taxation, as a social tool for confiscation from churches? It's happened before, and I'm certain that cash-starved states will do so again.

Maybe you should abide by these principles and do no unjust discrimination, and show some respect. Christian gays are called to chastity, but I see nothing about non-christian gays.

So Christians should just say nothing about behaviour which is intrinsically disordered?

All I see is to show repsect. You can start anytime. Civil unions would be a good place.

Yeah, and collaborate in sin. I see how it works. Christians have to approve and fund behaviours contrary to their beliefs, while atheists make everyone pay for theirs. Secular school system, while Christians pay for both the secular schools, and for their own. Where is the liberty in that?

It also mentions that it is not by choice. So no christian gay should marry a women and live a farce since they are called to chastity.

Yes, just like alcoholism isn't a choice. It doesn't mean you indulge in alcoholism. Also, chastity concerns the unmarried person, they are to remain chaste or married.

Thanks for finding this and once again proving just what kind of religious person you are. One last question, have you ever masterbated?

Yes, I became a convert to Christianity because I have always been sinless.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm sure that are very few in any church calling out for their exempt status to be revoked.

Well, we aren't statists. Increased taxation is always a bad thing.

I've never seen anyone call to revoke the exempt status of Greenpeace either.

[Ming]

Justices of the peace are public servants. We all pay their salaries. Clerics/priests/pastors are all paid by their respective congregations.

Why are Christians having to pay so that atheists can get married?

And why do we give religions tax breaks... Why should I have to pay higher taxes becasue of religious tax breaks. I'll bet those tax breaks are far bigger than the cost of the time public servants dedicate to performing marriages... So again... yet another stupid comment/argument on your part.