Support for same sex marriage grows... ever stronger

[Ming]

It is about love, and you don't you need a church for that.
What, you think it's about some make believe god???? How stupid can you get.
When two people want to commit to be together, they get married. Some people do it with a civil service... and some feel the need to have some deity make it right for them.
Fortunately, the smart people don't need some silly god to prove to them that they are making a commitment to each other. Anybody that thinks that a god is needed to justify their commitment doesn't really understand what commitment is all about.

[Ming]

No, they don't, not at all. You want to be with someone, then go and be with them. What more do you need then that?

I want the right to be considered married... the right for all the world to know we have made a commitment to each other. Why do you feel some silly need to have a make believe god give his make believe permission...

Why should religious people be the only ones to claim the ability to get married. Anybody that thinks that is just a relgious bigot... who only cares about themselves and nobody else... the type of people that really don't understand the concept of marriage.

[Ming]

Who's cramming anything down your throat. You want to be with someone you love, then go and do so.

You are... You are denying me the right to get married simply because I don't believe in your silly god. You only accept a marrige if it's relgion related... which is just plain stupid and bigoted.

EVERYBODY has the right to get married... not just morons who believe in the same make believe faith as you.

[Ben Kenobi]

It is about love, and you don't you need a church for that.

For you perhaps, but not for me.

What, you think it's about some make believe god???? How stupid can you get.

I believe it's a sacrament, instituted by God himself.

When two people want to commit to be together, they get married. Some people do it with a civil service... and some feel the need to have some deity make it right for them.

Fortunately, the smart people don't need some silly god to prove to them that they are making a commitment to each other. Anybody that thinks that a god is needed to justify their commitment doesn't really understand what commitment is all about.

So the smart people insist on making other people pay to get married? That's pretty clever when you think about it. I don't think it's right for the state to get involved at all. If people want to get married, they are free to do so, and I don't believe they need a justice of the peace to be committed to one another.

[Ben Kenobi]

I want the right to be considered married... the right for all the world to know we have made a commitment to each other.

Then get married in a church. It ain't hard.

Why do you feel some silly need to have a make believe god give his make believe permission...

Silly or not he came up with this idea of marriage in the first place. It seems crazy to me that someone would point to marriage as an ideal and not acknowledge God in all of it. It doesn't make a lick of sense, like eating oreos without the creamy filling.

Why do you want to take God out of marriage?

Why should religious people be the only ones to claim the ability to get married. Anybody that thinks that is just a relgious bigot... who only cares about themselves and nobody else... the type of people that really don't understand the concept of marriage.

Marriage isn't just a contract, it's the indissoluble bond between a man and a woman. Honestly, I'm not sure divorce is even possible in the proper sense. This is a pretty radical concept which isn't reflected at all in the secular idea of marriage.

Truthfully, our idea of marriage is so far apart, that we shouldn't be even using the same word. You are talking more about civil unions, about the public declaration of a commitment between someone you love. It's a great thing, but it's not marriage.

[Ben Kenobi]

You are... You are denying me the right to get married simply because I don't believe in your silly god.

All I am saying is our beliefs in what marriage really is are very different from one another.

You only accept a marrige if it's relgion related... which is just plain stupid and bigoted.

My concept of marriage is that it cannot be separated from God. Take God out of the picture and it's just not the same. Your view of marriage is that anyone who loves each other and wants to make a public declaration of their love is married.

EVERYBODY has the right to get married... not just morons who believe in the same make believe faith as you.

Why is the non-bigot the one mocking the faith of other people?

[Ming]

Why is it that the one believes in a mystical and unproveable god is trying to cram his ideas down other people's throats...

Why is it that somebody actually thinks that god is a needed thing when it comes to two people loving each other and wanting to make a commitment to each other...

Why is god even needed when it comes to marriage...

Again... you raise no real arguments except for GOD... Well guess what, some people may not believe in god... or that god is needed to justify their love for another person.

God is NOT needed for love or commitment.

So again, what's your argument beyond your superstitious and non proveable beliefs?
Oh... that's right... you have none except for your bigoted hate for those that don't follow your faith.

Again... believe what you want... but don't expect others to be as stupid as you.

Freedom... that's what this is all about. All you are about is mindless religious beliefs that are bigoted at best.

God isn't needed for marriage... only to morons that don't believe in REAL commitement and love. They think they need a mystical being to approve of something that is really between two people.

So again... you have no REAL arguments... just a bunch of religious propaganda. No surprise...

[Ming]

My concept of marriage is that it cannot be separated from God. Take God out of the picture and it's just not the same. Your view of marriage is that anyone who loves each other and wants to make a public declaration of their love is married.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... like God makes the difference. Are you really saying that all those couples that only have civil services aren't the same as those that sit through a religious version. Freedom of religion means that you are welcome to your faith. But guess what... othere people believe in different things. They believe their marriages are as valid and as binding and have as much love as your crappy version. It is the same... if not better, since they don't think they need a make believe god to justify their love.

So you are trying to cram your narrow minded beliefs down other peoples throats. That's not what freedom of religion is about. It's about letting people believe in what they want... live and let live. You obviously aren't a real christian... just a foolish and stupid bigot.

[Ming]

One last time... you have NO argument except for "god"... everything else you have said makes no sense and is just plain stupid and has no logic. Just admit it.

It's all about your version of god... and nothing else. Health... taxes... whatever... all a smoke screen. You have no real argument except your beliefs... it's that simple. So yes, in reality you are a religious bigot... and nothing else. Go practice your relgion and leave other smarter people alone. Fortunately, the tide is turning and eventually, you will be a minority... a sad minority.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's all about your version of god... and nothing else. Health... taxes... whatever... all a smoke screen. You have no real argument except your beliefs... it's that simple. So yes, in reality you are a religious bigot... and nothing else. Go practice your relgion and leave other smarter people alone. Fortunately, the tide is turning and eventually, you will be a minority... a sad minority.

Better get those gas tanks rolling.

[Ben Kenobi]

Are you really saying that all those couples that only have civil services aren't the same as those that sit through a religious version.

IMO? No, the two aren't the same. Legally they are they should remain so, but in my opinion, they are not the same.

Freedom of religion means that you are welcome to your faith. But guess what... othere people believe in different things. They believe their marriages are as valid and as binding and have as much love as your crappy version. It is the same... if not better, since they don't think they need a make believe god to justify their love.

That's fine, they are free to believe that there is no difference between the two, and again the law agrees with them. However, my opinion is different. I simply believe there's a difference between marriage as a sacrament, and marriage as a civil contract.

So you are trying to cram your narrow minded beliefs down other peoples throats. That's not what freedom of religion is about. It's about letting people believe in what they want... live and let live. You obviously aren't a real christian... just a foolish and stupid bigot.

Where have I argued that my beliefs ought to be enforced in law? I do believe in live and let live, and that everyone should be free to be with whomever they love. I just don't believe the government should be dictating things.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why is it that the one believes in a mystical and unproveable god is trying to cram his ideas down other people's throats...

Mystical and unprovable? The same God who's keeping you alive today? I doubt he'd much like you going off on him.

Why is it that somebody actually thinks that god is a needed thing when it comes to two people loving each other and wanting to make a commitment to each other...

I don't believe christian marriage is truly possible without God.

Again... you raise no real arguments except for GOD... Well guess what, some people may not believe in god... or that god is needed to justify their love for another person.

You can love without him, that's for sure. But to keep and hold a Christian marriage is another matter.

So again, what's your argument beyond your superstitious and non proveable beliefs?
Oh... that's right... you have none except for your bigoted hate for those that don't follow your faith.

Superstition is expecting the same coin to flip tails when there's been 5 heads in a row. Christians are not superstitious. We believe God has a plan for the world. If you want to stop being superstitious, you should become a Christian.

Again... believe what you want... but don't expect others to be as stupid as you.

Right, so is it because we are stupid that we become Christians, or does Christianity take smart people and make them stupid?

[rah]

On my dime. Why should I pay for other people to get married? You won't be paying for my wedding.

Then the church should give up it's tax excempt status, because otherwise indirectly we would be paying for your marriage. Well maybe not me in a different country, but all the gays in yours.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Maybe you should abide by these principles and do no unjust discrimination, and show some respect. Christian gays are called to chastity, but I see nothing about non-christian gays. All I see is to show repsect. You can start anytime. Civil unions would be a good place. It also mentions that it is not by choice. So no christian gay should marry a women and live a farce since they are called to chastity.
Thanks for finding this and once again proving just what kind of religious person you are. One last question, have you ever masterbated?

But feel free to move the goalpost, we're used to it.

[Lorizael]

Hmm?

I don't see why people making false assumptions is my own fault. I've said it clearly, I don't support government involvement in either traditional marriage or gay marriage.

If I say, I don't support government involvement in gay marriage, that doesn't mean that I support government involvement in traditional marriage.

I don't see why I need to state my opinion on something that is off-topic, and I don't see why someone who is logical would assume that notA automatically means I believe in notAB, instead of notAnotB. You don't have enough information to draw that conclusion.

Apolyton is full of some pretty damn smart people and I'm willing to bet that most of them believe your stance is, "The government should support straight marriage but not gay marriage," and not, "The government should not support any kind of marriage."

Why would a whole bunch of really smart people on Apolyton be so wrong about your beliefs? Is it, perhaps, because you constantly use the argument that the government's vested interest in marriage is a reason why gay marriage should not be allowed? And wouldn't that argument suggest that you support the government's vested interest in straight marriage?

You've started a fair number of threads on gay marriage in the past, Ben. I looked through the archives and found them. But I didn't find a single thread you started in which you discuss your opposition to the government's monetary involvement in the institution of marriage. There's no reason why anyone would believe this to be your stance.

And why is that? Because you're quite content to let people believe that you do support government involvement in marriage. It lets you use it as an argument against gay marriage specifically, which is what you actually care about. You don't really give a damn about the fact that the government's money goes toward supporting marriages it has an interest in.

[MikeH]

I think the anti-gay marriage thing is just a vehicle to get across his backward homophobic views that gay people are evil, dirty, wrong, inferior, diseased and violent.

I think he tumesces slightly when he sees fit young men with their tops off