When will it be acceptable for pedophiles to get out of the closet?

[Kuciwalker]

What we allow in society is based on what is normal, and we allow people do deviate from what is normal based on consent/causing harm.

Any practicing pedophile is
1. causing harm to a defenseless human
2. forcing a human

Way to move the goalposts. The entire thread is based on the idea that non-practicing pedophiles should be able to come out of the closet.

[Jon Miller]

I accept homosexuality because if people who can consent engage in some non-normal activity, than I will allow them to make that decision.

JM

[Kuciwalker]

I believe we can accept that pedophiles are not intrinsically evil people. Therefore, without evidence that they are universally dangerous, we shouldn't repress and ostracize them. It should be acceptable for pedophiles to come out (especially to seek treatment) without having their lives destroyed.

As a Christian you ought to be particularly sympathetic to this argument, JM.

[Jon Miller]

Way to move the goalposts. The entire thread is based on the idea that non-practicing pedophiles should be able to come out of the closet.

They already can.

Non-practicing pedophiles are non-practicing for one of two reasons:

1. Strong ethical/moral problem with pedophilia.
2. Government forcing them to be non-practicing.

1., and to an extant 2., are both partially or entirely caused by societies strong adversion to pedophilia. I say partially because if you believe in a religious source of morality, than even if society starts encouraging pedophilia and it is wrong, pedophiles who follow God may still stay non-practicing.

Basically, the repression of pedophile activities is caused by the adversion of society.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

I believe we can accept that pedophiles are not intrinsically evil people. Therefore, without evidence that they are universally dangerous, we shouldn't repress and ostracize them. It should be acceptable for pedophiles to come out (especially to seek treatment) without having their lives destroyed.

I don't see why it should be any different from those with homosexual inclinations. They should both be able to seek treatment. You cannot say that something is wrong and then at the same time deny treatment that is requested.

Kuci, Christians believe that everyone is intrinsically evil, in the sense that they are corrupted by sin. Arguing that one class of sinners is not intrinsically evil is not helpful.

[Jon Miller]

As a Christian you ought to be particularly sympathetic to this argument, JM.

I do agree that a pedophile is no more evil than you or I.

I am saying that what keeps pedophiles from practicing is the large social dislike of their activity. As well as the strong government laws.

There is a big difference between this and drugs. In drugs case, a lot of the harm comes from the criminal activities that take place due to drugs being criminal. Same with prostitution. Personally I don't think that all of the harm comes from the illegal activities surrounding prostitution and drugs, and am in favor of keeping at least some drugs illegal.

It is more similar to poaching.... if we suddenly said that while poaching was still illegal, that selling/trading/etc of poached goods was perfectly legal. Would poaching go up or down?

I would be in favor of taking away laws restricting pedophiles who have never had sex with a minor or looked at child porn... but would note that one of the things that pedophile who successfully keep from molesting do is keep away from children.

Did you read the link I posted from the pedophile?

I will also note that in another link I read, pedophiles generally did have problems relating to adults. I think that currently it is best for a pedophile to not tell anyone other than his/her therapist. However, I don't think that society is smart enough to differentiate between the orientation and the activity in it's condemnation.

JM

[Kuciwalker]

They already can.

Without being repressed and ostracized. I've used that wording enough times in this thread that it should have been obvious what I meant.

[Jon Miller]

Most Christians do agree that we are intrinsically sinners. The exact thoughts on this can be quite different, but that is a different discussion.

JM

[Kuciwalker]

I do agree that a pedophile is no more evil than you or I.
It is more similar to poaching.... if we suddenly said that while poaching was still illegal, that selling/trading/etc of poached goods was perfectly legal. Would poaching go up or down?

What analogy are you trying to draw here?

Ostracizing pedophiles won't actually reduce their number, JM.

I will also note that in another link I read, pedophiles generally did have problems relating to adults. I think that currently it is best for a pedophile to not tell anyone other than his/her therapist. However, I don't think that society is smart enough to differentiate between the orientation and the activity in it's condemnation.

The other link you posted was completely unsourced.

[Jon Miller]

Without being repressed and ostracized. I've used that wording enough times in this thread that it should have been obvious what I meant.

Pedophiles who have never molested, would only do so because they strongly beleive it is morally/ethically wrong. A society is too stupid to differentiate it's dislike between a person and the activity. So in order to have society repress and ostracize the activity, it has to respress and ostracize the activity.

JM
(By the way, I have friends who don't believe it is ethically/morally wrong. Or at least say so. After they say so I don't want to be around them for a while... I hope that they are not pedophiles (if they aren't just trying to say something shocking) because if they are there isn't really anything keeping them from molesting kid.)

[Kuciwalker]

Hooray for noble lies.

[Jon Miller]

You are trying to say that we can ostrasize molesting kids, while being accepting of pedophiles.

I don't think society is capable of that subtlety.

JM

[DaShi]

As a Christian you ought to be particularly sympathetic to this argument, JM.

Did Kuci just quote himself while saying: "You should believe this!"?

I guess it's better than the trail of strawmen he is laying down.