When will it be acceptable for pedophiles to get out of the closet?

[Jon Miller]

Post some, then. Post some research that shows that all pedophiles molest children.

Where did I claim that?

I said that pedophilia was considered a sexuality, that (At the least) wasn't easily changed. That all pedophiles wanted to molest children.

And that for those that don't molest children, that they had to go through pretty strong behavior prevention. Such as staying away from all children, chemical castration, etc. And that this only happens for those where the state gets involved, or who have pretty strong morals/ethics that pedophilia is wrong.

I mean, there are heterosexuals and homosexuals who stay away from sex for various reasons. The point is that pedophiles to not molest have to feel that such is really really wrong/evil, and stay far away from children/etc.

JM

[Jon Miller]

And you're willing to make policy decisions based on unfounded conjecture, rather than after actual study has been done?

The policy is made on pedophiles who don't molest are the ones who undergo some set of chemical change, counseling, staying away from children, etc... all things that some normal person wouldn't do. Obviously the only ones who do this are ones where the state steps in and forces it or who strongly believe that their inclinations are wrong and evil.

JM

[Jon Miller]

How many heterosexuals don't try to have sex with someone with the opposite sex?

How many homosexuals don't try to have sex with someone of the same sex?

I do think that some pedos don't try to be child molesters. But it takes a strong ethical/moral system and them recognizing that their desires are wrong. A need for those who are rehabilited is to stay away from kids/etc.

JM

My initial post.

JM

[Alinestra Covelia]

Hmm, it's a good question. I think if an adult has no history of child molestation whatsoever, and they know they have pedophilic tendencies and go to seek professional help, that will not get them into trouble.

It's not illegal to have sexual feelings towards kids. It may be "deviant behavior" (however you care to define that) but it's generally not illegal, as long as it's just a mental state of mind.

It is illegal to have sex with kids. By extension, it's also illegal to download video and photographic images depicting kids in sexual situations, because those could only be made by placing a child into a sexual situation.

Note that it is not illegal to depict drawings of children in sexual situations. (If it were, then a lot of the adult-oriented Japanese cartoon porn that makes it over here would be banned.) The one major difference is that you cannot assume that any actual child was involved in producing that drawing or animation. A U.S. case in 2003 upheld that animated movies could not be held to be sexual depictions involving children for precisely this purpose.

Based on this alone, the law seems to recognize that you can't punish a person just for what they harbor inside their head. It's only when they act on it that it becomes criminally liable.

Another interesting case centered on a citizen in Kansas, who had some subscription to a magazine showing young females in sexual situations. Kansas state legislature then passed a law making it illegal for females below a certain age to take part in sexual relations, and thus those magazines were illegal in Kansas. The customer notified the company and asked to have his account and details erased, and to be taken off their mailing list. The company failed to do this, and continued sending what was essentially advertisements for child pornography (by Kansas legal standards) to him. After about three years of this he finally caved in and bought something, at which point the state police arrested and charged him. That case was thrown out because of an entrapment defense.

But back to the question on the table - I agree with most of the posters who say that if current trends prevail, it will be very unlikely that pedophiles will find any sort of "safe harbor" under the law, and that their best course of action will usually be repression and secrecy.

It is my belief that the responsibilities of parenthood tend to make a demographic much more socially protectionist in their thinking, and generally more socially conservative with regards to anything that might affect the welfare of their children. Pedophiles fall squarely into the group of people which would trigger extreme instinctual opposition on all levels from the parenting demographic.

Sucks to be a pedophile. Better them than me.

[Kuciwalker]

Note that it is not illegal to depict drawings of children in sexual situations. (If it were, then a lot of the adult-oriented Japanese cartoon porn that makes it over here would be banned.)

That's actually not true in Japan, I believe.

[Kuciwalker]

How would you assess someone to be a pedo in the first place? If it's because they are adjudged to be a child molester your qualm is circumvented.

The problem under discussion is the fact that pedophiles cannot seek counseling or help without being totally ostracized.

[DaShi]

I thought the problem was your non-issue that Jon pointed out.

[Zoid]

Why is homosexuality normal when pedophilia is not? Or is pedophilia normal as well?

*sigh Homosexuality is "normal" because the people involved are consenting adults, pedophilia is not "normal" because minors can not be consenting to sex in the society we live in. Why is this so hard to understand?

[Kuciwalker]

Because it's ridiculous. Why is normality suddenly defined in terms of consent?

[Lorizael]

When the phenomena (your phantom pedophile who has never looked at child porn or touched another child) being discussed is of a scope that is de minimis at best, yes I do believe that I am quite comfortable with that Kuci.

What's wrong with looking at child porn if you don't pay for it?

[Ben Kenobi]

Point to Kuci. Consent isn't a very strong line.

[Jon Miller]

(A) Minors can't consent

(B) Minors are sexually not developed

I don't think anything more needs to be said. In an anarchic situation, it would still be wrong because of point (B). A man liking another man is one sexually developed human liking another sexually developed human. A human wanting to have sex with a non-sexually developed human is one of the clear signs that humans can be ****ed up.

JM

[Jon Miller]

But the point is, even if homosexuality isn't normal, it is between consenting adults. Kids can't consent, and so it is illegal in almost 100% of societies.

JM

[Kuciwalker]

(A) Minors can't consent

(B) Minors are sexually not developed

I don't think anything more needs to be said. In an anarchic situation, it would still be wrong because of point (B). A man liking another man is one sexually developed human liking another sexually developed human. A human wanting to have sex with a non-sexually developed human is one of the clear signs that humans can be ****ed up.

JM

What was this a response to?

[Jon Miller]

Defining normality. Outside of a social system, see (B).

JM