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The European Dream is the last hope for the ultimate victory of humanist ideals

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  • #1

    The European Dream is the last hope for the ultimate victory of humanist ideals

    Regardless of what you think of the EU the dream that led to its creation is surely worthy of respect. I cannot help but hope that one day it will be reality. Human rights, peace, prosperity, united in diversity and solidarity. If humanity is capable of improving itself and learning from history it will first do so in Europe since it is the home of a family of cultures that has produced some of histories greatest geniuses and villains.




    Despite all our faults I can not help but feel profoundly proud of being European. I hope to see in my own life time a United democratic Europe from Greenland to Moscow.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila
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  • #2
    A united democratic Europe in our lifetimes is difficult to foresee, especially since the sovereignty-driven bigots have halted that evolution to a standstill the past 15-20 years or so.

    Despite the degrading comments from narrow-minded, reactionary Yankees that will surely flood this thread, I too am sort of proud of what Europe has achieved over the past 60 years. We've given up colonialism and imperialism and at least try and give the impression that human rights and solidarity actually mean something. Most of all though, we are now able to settle all our differences peacefully. If only the Americans would join the party
    "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
    "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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    • #3
      By the way, a united democratic Europe is not always needed or desirable. We could still maintain a well-functioning union without having a government or something resembling that.
      "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
      "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Traianvs View Post
        By the way, a united democratic Europe is not always needed or desirable. We could still maintain a well-functioning union without having a government or something resembling that.

        United Democratic Europe =/= Continent wide goverment


        A Union of independent democratic states would work just as well or maybe even better.
        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Traianvs View Post
          A united democratic Europe in our lifetimes is difficult to foresee, especially since the sovereignty-driven bigots have halted that evolution to a standstill the past 15-20 years or so.

          Despite the degrading comments from narrow-minded, reactionary Yankees that will surely flood this thread, I too am sort of proud of what Europe has achieved over the past 60 years. We've given up colonialism and imperialism and at least try and give the impression that human rights and solidarity actually mean something. Most of all though, we are now able to settle all our differences peacefully. If only the Americans would join the party
          Remember my lifetime is about another 60 years. That is plenty of time for another major change. Otherwise I agree with your post.



          Also I think that you may be a bit too pessimistic about USAian responses to this thread. I mean I abhor the corporate monstrosity that the US farce of a democracy has become but the dream of the founding fathers is a great example of the very best in humanity. I am sure they can make the same distinction between the ideal and the institutions that supposedly represent such ideals. We too often tempted to underestimate our cousins across the pond. They aren't really stupid.
          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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          • #6
            Not to rain on your parade, but there is still only a thin veneer of peace in some parts of Europe. See, e.g., Bosnia.

            Also, the US is still there enforcing the peace. I think that we might be able to stop doing so without harm, but I am not certain of this.

            Lastly, I am uneasy and mistrustful of the lack of religious feeling in some parts of Europe.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #7
              Alright, Captain Picard. Good luck with your Prime Directive.

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              • #8
                Errr...... The closest thing that Europe has to a united force essentially functions at the behest of a non-European power, the United States. No matter who technically holds the seat as head of NATO, we all know that NATO does nothing against the expressed policy of the Unitied States.

                Personally I would welcome a fully functional European Union right down to a fully independent EU army, navy and air force. I don't like the current situation of the US as the world's only super-power. It invites a repetition of Iraq, and let's face it, Sarah Palin might well be the next President-Elect of the United States. The current situation flies in the face of the principles of government laid down by our founding fathers. There needs to be another super-power.
                "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DanS View Post
                  Not to rain on your parade, but there is still only a thin veneer of peace in some parts of Europe. See, e.g., Bosnia.
                  I would know, I'm from Slovenia. But these are parts of Europe that where shaken to the core by the fall of communism, also the Balkans have always been at the edge of Europe culturally. Slovenia has successfully transitioned and is now fully integrated in Europe I am sure Croatia will follow quickly and the other Balkan countries have the same potential.

                  Originally posted by DanS View Post
                  Not to rain on your parade, but there is still only a
                  Also, the US is still there enforcing the peace. I think that we might be able to stop doing so without harm, but I am not certain of this.
                  In the former region of Yugoslavia it was precisely US influence that secured peace since Western Euros where slow to recognize the state's collapse as a "European" problem.


                  Originally posted by DanS View Post
                  Not to rain on your parade, but there is still only a

                  Lastly, I am uneasy and mistrustful of the lack of religious feeling in some parts of Europe.
                  I am more uneasy by the presence of religious feelings in Europe's Muslim community. You must understand that in our long history religion has show itself as a tool of oppression whenever it was strong, it was also a cause of war, censorship and untold suffering. The American experience is off course different.

                  But if both respect freedom of religion is it truly relevant if a smaller % of Euros believe in a God than their USAian cousins? No one is forced into atheism in Europe.
                  Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                  The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                  The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Also, the US is still there enforcing the peace. I think that we might be able to stop doing so without harm, but I am not certain of this.
                    Eh AFAIK EUFOR is keeping the peace in Bosnia. I'm not sure of its composition but I doubt there are any American troops under European command at the moment.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Riesstiu IV View Post
                      Alright, Captain Picard. Good luck with your Prime Directive.
                      LOL

                      Actually I think that the real reason I love the European ideal is because I was a trekkie as a kid. I mean the United Federation of Planets is basically what the EU aspires to be just in space.
                      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by colon™ View Post
                        eh afaik eufor is keeping the peace in bosnia. I'm not sure of its composition but i doubt there are any american troops under european command at the moment.
                        qft
                        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Colon™ View Post
                          Eh AFAIK EUFOR is keeping the peace in Bosnia. I'm not sure of its composition but I doubt there are any American troops under European command at the moment.
                          We have discussed this before. Do you deny that the US is enforcing the peace in Europe? I never thought that you did.

                          One detail doesn't change that fact.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                          • #14
                            Islam > EU.

                            They PWN you. I really don't see why it's a triumph when most of you will be praying to Mecca.
                            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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                            • #15
                              I hope so, when that happens the Pope will move to Brazil.
                              I need a foot massage

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