The European Dream is the last hope for the ultimate victory of humanist ideals

[Ben Kenobi]

He'll just be an enclave inside a continent of Islam instead of humanism.

[onodera]

Errr...... The closest thing that Europe has to a united force essentially functions at the behest of a non-European power, the United States. No matter who technically holds the seat as head of NATO, we all know that NATO does nothing against the expressed policy of the Unitied States.

The solution is to invite us into NATO, like Dalai-Lama suggests.

[Traianvs]

The solution is to invite us into NATO, like Dalai-Lama suggests.

I think Doc means there needs to be another superpower that is an ally / friend to the United States. Russia - especially given 20th century history - only barely meets that requirement

[Traianvs]

Islam > EU.

They PWN you. I really don't see why it's a triumph when most of you will be praying to Mecca.

You haven't the foggiest what you are talking about. Islam would only have the possibility of pwning the EU if there are more ethnic North-Africans immigrants than original inhabitants. There's about 550 million Europeans (granted: a portion of them being immigrants). GL islam!

[Traianvs]

Remember my lifetime is about another 60 years.



Also I think that you may be a bit too pessimistic about USAian responses to this thread. I mean I abhor the corporate monstrosity that the US farce of a democracy has become but the dream of the founding fathers is a great example of the very best in humanity. I am sure they can make the same distinction between the ideal and the institutions that supposedly represent such ideals. We too often tempted to underestimate our cousins across the pond. They aren't really stupid.

I don' think every American is stupid. Nevertheless, a vast amount of them hates the EU and what it stands for with all their guts. TCO says we're Eurowimps, Drake says we're all mass-murdering pigs etc. Even if they're simply trolling, their nonsensical drivel reveils an ingrained dislike towards their former overlords

Anticipating some heavy troll from their side is not so far-fetched imo

[Pekka]

Do I smell a TRUE EURO?!!?!?
Then again, you quote Seneca, so all is forgiven

Humanism. That word is sort of double edged for me. It might be a good thing, but it might stink like ass. Quasi-humanism, this idea, this has long... there are parts of it that has long hindered nations, like a plague. I guess I should not talk about humanism per se, because this is rather "humanists" from the past and current days, that I hate with passion and their views, and I think they should be tortured and killed.

[Theben]

Lastly, I am uneasy and mistrustful of the lack of religious feeling in some parts of Europe.

I see that as one of their better accomplishments. Less likely to be blindsided by religious dogma.

[dannubis]

Amen to that

[Ben Kenobi]

You haven't the foggiest what you are talking about. Islam would only have the possibility of pwning the EU if there are more ethnic North-Africans immigrants than original inhabitants. There's about 550 million Europeans (granted: a portion of them being immigrants). GL islam!

They already do, and they only have 10 percent. You're assuming that it takes 1 euro = 1 Islamist. We all know that's not true...

[Dauphin]

They already do, and they only have 10 percent. You're assuming that it takes 1 euro = 1 Islamist. We all know that's not true...

What? 10% of the EU is supposed to at least nominally muslim? It's closer to 3%.

[duke o' york]

Furthermore, no matter what the percentage of Muslim residents, that doesn't mean that the entire continent will automatically side with the Arab states and sever all ties with Israel.

The average European Muslim is a lot more tolerant than the average Muslim from the Arabian peninsula, so even if their numbers were to increase to the levels Ben suggests then this would not mean a political shift of even a single government, let alone the continent. Or is Rachida Dati a covert operative for an extreme fundamentalist sect just masquerading as a member of one of the most traditionalist governments in Europe?

[Riesstiu IV]

Yes, Muslims in Europe are much more tolerant. Instead of beheading apostates and stoning prostitutes, they'll riot and burn their own neighborhoods over a cartoon.

[notyoueither]

A united democratic Europe in our lifetimes is difficult to foresee, especially since the sovereignty-driven bigots have halted that evolution to a standstill the past 15-20 years or so.

Despite the degrading comments from narrow-minded, reactionary Yankees that will surely flood this thread, I too am sort of proud of what Europe has achieved over the past 60 years. We've given up colonialism and imperialism and at least try and give the impression that human rights and solidarity actually mean something. Most of all though, we are now able to settle all our differences peacefully. If only the Americans would join the party

I'm not a Yank.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Nevertheless, a vast amount of them hates the EU and what it stands for with all their guts.

I don't hate the EU; it's hard to care one way or the other about something so inconsequential. So France and Germany convinced most of the rest of Europe to join them in a currency union. Wow, big deal...

Drake says we're all mass-murdering pigs etc

I never said all Europeans are mass-murderers. I said Belgians were, which is true.

[Colonâ„¢]

What? 10% of the EU is supposed to at least nominally muslim? It's closer to 3%.

Quite ironic then if one considers a country like Saudi Arabia has been getting a non-Muslim population close to 10% of the total.