LordShiva and DaShi's homework: Teh Disadvantages of Elite Education

[onodera]

Why do you need a PC lab to write an historical essay or use Google scholar? There are home PCs for that.
But you cannot demonstrate your programming abilities without a PC for anything less trivial than some linked list juggling. We had to write our first programming exam on paper. With a pen. But the second one, half a year later, required us to demostrate our programs on an actual PC and modify them on the fly.
But you don't need a whole lab to type and prrint out some essay. Do it at home and print it in the library.

[Asher]

Originally posted by onodera
Why do you need a PC lab to write an historical essay or use Google scholar? There are home PCs for that.

Because there is a lot to be gained by working with people in a school environment.

But you cannot demonstrate your programming abilities without a PC for anything less trivial than some linked list juggling. We had to write our first programming exam on paper. With a pen. But the second one, half a year later, required us to demostrate our programs on an actual PC and modify them on the fly.
But you don't need a whole lab to type and prrint out some essay. Do it at home and print it in the library.

Are we talking about computer science degrees or programming diplomas?

I've never written a computer science exam on a computer. Ever. Always on paper.

[Ben Kenobi]

We've already established that farmhouse schools do not count in this context.

And accredited universities? You know what the really sad part is? It cost only a fraction of the amount to educate me as it took for you.

I know very well how to use a library, but the simple fact is you can't always get what you are looking for.

True, this is the biggest problem. It gives you two options, to use the books you have to come up with a good thesis or to find sources elsewhere. I tended to use the other route and dug up primary sources wherever I could find them.

I agree with you google is helpful, but not one of the books I needed I found through google. Instead, I used google to hunt down the catalogue numbers so that I could get the books I needed. Books are absolutely essential to any credible research in history.

There's limited numbers of copies, there's limited storage space, there's limited money. I tried to do some research for an economics paper in my school's 14-story main library tower and it was a nightmare. All of the relevant books were checked out and I had to make due with half-assed books barely relevant.

Sounds like you don't know your library as well as you should. 14 stories should be more then enough to find something of some use.

I'm not sure you can comprehend the power of Google Scholar in locating books you can then get from your library, or access it online.

Why bother? You can do the same with normal google and the catalogue numbers. It's faster. You should be paying me for giving you research secrets.

How old are you? You're not much older than me, but you're many times more stupid. I assume unfamiliarity with Unix because you lack familiarity with it. I don't care what you say, you are too stupid to use Unix.

You grew up in Alberta. The education system there is primitive.

I actually liked Unix. It was very crisp. No muss no fuss.

Which Unix did you use? Which window environment?

X window system with Unix 7. We used Mathematica 4.0 all the time.

Heh. You were in physics for one year, and dropped out to do something easier. Don't pretend to even think you've got the same math knowledge of somebody who took four years of pure and applied mathematics because you took the introductory physics courses.

2 years honours physics is pretty much the equivalent of all the other fields outside of the math majors.

In the real world at a real school, they are. You are out of touch with reality, as usual.

You'd be lost at sea without your computer? That's sad.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
And accredited universities? You know what the really sad part is? It cost only a fraction of the amount to educate me as it took for you.

AND IT SHOWS.

I agree with you google is helpful, but not one of the books I needed I found through google. Instead, I used google to hunt down the catalogue numbers so that I could get the books I needed. Books are absolutely essential to any credible research in history.

That's less and less so by the day. The catalog scanned by Google dwarfs the size of your typical university's collection of books and it's growing rapidly.

To be clear, you know I'm not talking about Google.com, but http://scholar.google.com right?

Sounds like you don't know your library as well as you should. 14 stories should be more then enough to find something of some use.

Not when you have specific things to write about. It's not about "knowing the library", it's about finite resources with lots of people. There's 26,000 undergrads at my school, it's not a hick school like yours.

Why bother? You can do the same with normal google and the catalogue numbers. It's faster. You should be paying me for giving you research secrets.

Because most of the books the local university does not have. Because now I can search inside the books for specific content with ease.

You grew up in Alberta. The education system there is primitive.

That would certainly explain why it ranks #1 in the country in math and science in standardized tests, wouldn't it.

I like how you call it primitive, yet you went to a school where people still hand-wrote essays and didn't use computers for research because they feared technology.

The University of Calgary is so primitive it's building a $100M+ Digital Library, which is the first of its kind in Canada.

I actually liked Unix. It was very crisp. No muss no fuss.

X window system with Unix 7.

None of this makes any sense.

2 years honours physics is pretty much the equivalent of all the other fields outside of the math majors.

Hey, guess which faculty computer science is part of?
Until recently, my school granted "BMath in Computer Science" but now it's "BSc" to fit in with the rest of the world...

You'd be lost at sea without your computer? That's sad.

Computers are how the modern world goes 'round. Welcome to the real world, Ben.

[Kuciwalker]

I actually liked Unix. It was very crisp. No muss no fuss.

X window system with Unix 7.

See, you're full of **** and have no idea what you're talking about.

[Ben Kenobi]

That's less and less so by the day. The catalog scanned by Google dwarfs the size of your typical university's collection of books and it's growing rapidly.

I've used google scholar. It sucks ass. I don't like how they've got things set up and it would take ages for me to find the info I need, assuming it's there in google scholar.

Not when you have specific things to write about. It's not about "knowing the library", it's about finite resources with lots of people. There's 26,000 undergrads at my school, it's not a hick school like yours.

Like UBC? 3 quarters of my degree was earned there. I only went to UNBC to finish the last year. UBC > Waterloo. I had NO problems finding good books in the UBC library.

Because most of the books the local university does not have. Because now I can search inside the books for specific content with ease.

With ease? It's so much faster reading through the book then the clunky interface on google scholar. It's migraine inducing. No thanks.

That would certainly explain why it ranks #1 in the country in math and science in standardized tests, wouldn't it.

As you said yourself you aren't one of the elite in coming from the backwater of North America.

None of this makes any sense.

Oh ok. Thank you oh high and mighty Asher.

Hey, guess which faculty computer science is part of?
Until recently, my school granted "BMath in Computer Science" but now it's "BSc" to fit in with the rest of the world...

As I said the physics guys do all the heavy lifting and throw you a bone. That's what your entire department revolves around.

Computers are how the modern world goes 'round. Welcome to the real world, Ben.

They are a useful tool, but they aren't the be all and end all.

[Ben Kenobi]

See, you're full of **** and have no idea what you're talking about.

Oh, really.

Thanks for your insight Kuci.

You and Asher are just pissy cause I came up with the correct answer.

I hardly expect him to admit that I was right, ever, since I'm always wrong.

[Kuciwalker]

As I said the physics guys do all the heavy lifting and throw you a bone. That's what your entire department revolves around.

1) You are not a physicist. You are someone who wasn't nearly smart enough to be a physicist.

2) This is so not true it's not even comical. It's just... odd that anyone would even think of it. Computer science has never been primarily driven by physics... the closest thing have ever come may be 60 years ago, when the Army still developed its own computers to calculate artillery tables.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Oh, really.

Thanks for your insight Kuci.

You and Asher are just pissy cause I came up with the correct answer.

I hardly expect him to admit that I was right, ever, since I'm always wrong.

Dude, Unix Version 7 came out in 19 seventy ****ing nine, and was replaced within a couple years. You never used it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I've used google scholar. It sucks ass. I don't like how they've got things set up and it would take ages for me to find the info I need, assuming it's there in google scholar.

I'm sure it takes you ages to do a lot of things most people have no trouble with.

Like UBC? 3 quarters of my degree was earned there. I only went to UNBC to finish the last year. UBC > Waterloo. I had NO problems finding good books in the UBC library.

Not sure what Waterloo has to do with this. But while we're on the subject of physicists and Canadian schools, why isn't Stephen Hawking considering going to UBC if it's better than Waterloo?

With ease? It's so much faster reading through the book then the clunky interface on google scholar. It's migraine inducing. No thanks.

Man, you must suck at teh google.

As I said the physics guys do all the heavy lifting and throw you a bone. That's what your entire department revolves around.

Krazyhorse says otherwise, and I'll take his word over someone who dropped out of physics.

They are a useful tool, but they aren't the be all and end all.

Try functioning a day in modern society without using a computer in some way.

Note that this would mean you cannot drive or take public transit, nor use electricity or water or the internet...etc...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

As I said the physics guys do all the heavy lifting and throw you a bone. That's what your entire department revolves around.

1) You are not a physicist. You are someone who wasn't nearly smart enough to be a physicist.

2) This is so not true it's not even comical. It's just... odd that anyone would even think of it. Computer science has never been primarily driven by physics... the closest thing have ever come may be 60 years ago, when the Army still developed its own computers to calculate artillery tables.

What's more interesting is how for 2) the opposite is true. Computers are driving most physics research now, not vice versa. Ben should ask KH how much time he spends programming and using his computer for his work.

[Kuciwalker]

btw, you don't have to drag KH all the way back here. Just ask JM.

(though, I've seen some of his code, and it's not pretty )

[Ben Kenobi]

1) You are not a physicist. You are someone who wasn't nearly smart enough to be a physicist.

I'm more of one then you.

I'd have to agree with this if it was KH who was saying it but sorry Kuci, you ain't KH.

2) This is so not true it's not even comical. It's just... odd that anyone would even think of it. Computer science has never been primarily driven by physics... the closest thing have ever come may be 60 years ago, when the Army still developed its own computers to calculate artillery tables.

I suppose you'll say next that Engineering doesn't rely on physics at all.

Is that why all your computers still fill a room?

[Asher]

Ben, you are epic. I've never seen you be right on anything on this entire site. Seriously. Not even the simplest things. You blow my mind.

[Ben Kenobi]

What's more interesting is how for 2) the opposite is true. Computers are driving most physics research now, not vice versa. Ben should ask KH how much time he spends programming and using his computer for his work.

Cause we don't use slide rules no more. Duh.

Computers = Better slide rules.