LordShiva and DaShi's homework: Teh Disadvantages of Elite Education

[GePap]

Originally posted by Arrian


I didn't go to an Ivy, and the only one I know who is at an Ivy (Brown) is getting his PhD in history to become a college professor... and hell, he grew up in NYC with no money. So maybe it's just that this guy is talking about a phenomenon I haven't seen or experienced.

-Arrian

Being a graduate student is a bit different than being an undergrad, specially a PhD student.

I guess this is an issue of experiences, though I must say I am surprised you only know one person who has gone to an Ivy (or its ilk) living in Connecticutt, given that state is chuck full of alumni from such places.

[onodera]

This article made me like elite American colleges. We don't need long-haired bespectacled liberal arts majors having long-winded conversations about Sartre.
We need people possessing real intelligence - the analytical one. If these colleges can produce them, great. I still think MIT is whrere it's at, though.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

yes they are

Under what moral or metaphysical system is a person's worth based on their intelligence or education?

[Cort Haus]

Teh elite universities clearly fail to equip their inhabitants with the ability to express an argument succinctly and without rambling.

Apart from that, I quite liked the article, especially the bits about constantly jumping through hoops and pleasing teachers instead of doing something more interesting at the time.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by onodera
We need people possessing real intelligence - the analytical one. If these colleges can produce them, great.

This kind of ability is readily available to anyone of reasonable intelligence and application who is prepared to analyse the world on their own terms.

I find the idea that only the institutions of the great and the good are capable of developing such qualities to be an insult to humanity.

Ordinary, intelligent people.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If we assume that arts degrees DO build minds, why would someone who has a science degree assume that he would be capable of understanding the arguments of those with arts degrees?

Do I need to post Asher-note versions so you can read?

If your education decreases your ability to communicate with other people, there's something wrong with your education. Now, if you're talking about something field-specific and requiring jargon, your argument might hold water, whether the field is history requiring references to historical theories or comp-sci requiring references to high-level math. But with an argument this general, an inability to communicate is a sign that one of you is crippled, or else not trying properly.

(I'm really on nobody's side here; I agree that the liberal arts have no practical, careerist use, but fail to see why that's a problem)

[Asher]

(I'm really on nobody's side here; I agree that the liberal arts have no practical, careerist use, but fail to see why that's a problem)

It's not problem at all as long as it's not being funded by the taxpayers. I do not believe our society is better off by funding the legions of people who get history degrees just because they find it neat.

[Elok]

Don't look at me, I went to a private LA college.

[Ben Kenobi]

If your education decreases your ability to communicate with other people, there's something wrong with your education.

Assuming that clarity is the primary goal. I completely agree with you here, that education should permit you to communicate with anyone.

I was just arguing that logically, if arts education expanded the mind, then someone with a science education would encounter ideas they would not understand.

or else not trying properly.

Honestly, I hate jargon, which is why I try to use analogies whenever possible to make the ideas more persuasive to those who bother to actually read them.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's not problem at all as long as it's not being funded by the taxpayers. I do not believe our society is better off by funding the legions of people who get history degrees just because they find it neat.

Honestly, at least how it worked in my university is that the arts students carried the freight for the science students. I was paying in tuition much more then the university paid for my classes.

I don't see why they shouldn't encourage more students to enter in arts, because arts are far cheaper to teach then sciences.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

I don't see why they shouldn't encourage more students to enter in arts, because arts are far cheaper to teach then sciences.

That is one hell of an argument in favour of teaching degrees that go unused -- because it's cheaper.

Did you hone your critical thinking skills during your history degree?

[Cort Haus]

I'm from a science & comp-sci educational background myself, but if a history degree helps people to read and understand cause-and-effect, and develop their skills in summarising and communicating, while disciplining them in the business of knuckling down and achieving something, then I'm sure there are places in the economy where they can be useful, then good luck to them. After all, I'm a believer that a good mind can adapt itself to many ends.

If, OTOH, they did arts degrees just so they could fanny around for a few years then expect to walk into a career then **** 'em.

[onodera]

Has there been a famous painter with an art degree?

[Victor Galis]

OK... I totally fail to understand the problem the author seems to find. He can't relate to people who are completely different to... that's normal. The plumber is equally unequipped to make small talk with the intellectual. Oh NOES!1! There are people on the planet you can't relate to.

I mean he has a point somewhere in there that not all smart people go to elite universities, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the initial observation that he can't talk to his plumber.

Also... hey, there's arrogant people in the world. It's not that elite universities make people arrogant, it's that a large proportion of people, when they succeed at doing something others can't, become like that.

I think really the only thing I'm getting from the author is that he learned how to feel guilty because he has something others don't. I'm absolutely shocked that someone that has spent much time amongst left-wing intellectuals should feel this way .

[Arrian]

Originally posted by GePap


Being a graduate student is a bit different than being an undergrad, specially a PhD student.

I guess this is an issue of experiences, though I must say I am surprised you only know one person who has gone to an Ivy (or its ilk) living in Connecticutt, given that state is chuck full of alumni from such places.

Allow me to rephrase: none of my friends went to an Ivy. I'm sure I know people, at least casually, who did, though I can't think of one off-hand.

-Arrian