Study: Gays in the military will not undermine effectiveness

[Ben Kenobi]

You've got to be ****TING ME that you don't think men talk about women at all when they're away from their girlfriends/wives for weeks at a time. You are so thick.

So you admit it's something you deal with daily, and yet it would only be a problem for you in the barracks?

My god it would suck to be you having to look at all those skin mags and hear the guys brag about their conquests.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The fact that our military has been severely neglected is a problem for our sovereignty, as we cannot assert our claims to other nations.

You don't need to. The only country to which you need to assert your independence is your Southern neighbor, and frankly, you just aren't powerful enough to do it. It is in your Southern neighbor's interests to make sure you stay independent of everyone else, however. So you don't need a big imperialist military. You can rely on ours, and we're acting in our own interests, not yours.

[Arrian]

Another absolutely epic display of close-minded idiocy. Attaboy!

-Arrian

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

So why did you stay? If the policy was so repugnant to you, why didn't you quit? There was no one requiring you to remain in the military.

Good point Ben. If it were just a job, I probably would have quit. But it wasn't. It was a career that I thoroughly enjoyed doing. I was in Military Intelligence and loved what I did.

[Ben Kenobi]

I had to if I wanted to serve my country - this was a part of the double-life that I was speaking of. I even found myself having to go to titty-bars and the like (and feign interest) so that no "gay flags" would be raised.

I think anyone who has to serve has to make considerable sacrifices. A good friend of mine who is married and all, I remember talking to her when she was in high school, and she said she wanted to join the military. She had this romantic and idealised notion of what the services were about.

I basically told her you have a couple choices if you join. You'll have to put off having your family, and you'll be away from the folks you love for most of your time in the service. If you are willing to sacrifice both of these for the time being, then she would consider it. Her real reason for joining was basically it would be a leg up for her.

I think it's a real problem with the recruits, as it was for my uncle if they see the benefits as the most important thing to join the military. If you chose to continue being enlisted, despite being aware of the policy, then I don't know what to tell you wiglaf. No one forced you to join, and no one forced you to stay.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Seriously, Ben should be the first up on the wall when the revolution comes

It would be far more cruel to force him to watch everything he cares about unmade and everything he hates become acceptable.

[rah]

If his mind was any more narrow, it would be a straight line.

[Ben Kenobi]

You don't need to. The only country to which you need to assert your independence is your Southern neighbor, and frankly, you just aren't powerful enough to do it.

It is in your Southern neighbor's interests to make sure you stay independent of everyone else, however. So you don't need a big imperialist military.

You can rely on ours, and we're acting in our own interests, not yours.

Thanks for explaining exactly why I'm not proud of the Canadian Forces. So long as we rely on you folks to protect us, why do we have our own forces at all?

[Asher]

I started to type a response to Ben's latest epic response but my keyboard caught in fire with my furious typing.

If there is a God, may he have Mercy on Ben's soul. He knows not what he does or says.

[Ben Kenobi]

If there is a God, may he have Mercy on Ben's soul. He knows not what he does or says.

Thanks for praying for me Asher.

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

...If you chose to continue being enlisted, despite being aware of the policy, then I don't know what to tell you wiglaf. No one forced you to join, and no one forced you to stay.

PLEASE don't confuse me with Wiglaf, Ben.

Any way, yes Ben. I do see your point. But the current military policy is full of double-standards. Since we are currently fighting 2 wars, commanders choose to ignore sexuality issues when it comes to a soldier that the unit needs. Once the soldier's work is no longer required, the military kicks them out under the Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue Policy.

Do you really think that is right Ben?

[Asher]

Ben's just going to tell you he thinks it's wrong for the gays who are serving their country to be so selfish.

[Ben Kenobi]

Sorry Wittlich

Any way, yes Ben. I do see your point. But the current military policy is full of double-standards. Since we are currently fighting 2 wars, commanders choose to ignore sexuality issues when it comes to a soldier that the unit needs. Once the soldier's work is no longer required, the military kicks them out under the Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue Policy.

No, that's not right at all. If the soldier has not violated the conduct while he was in the service, then they couldn't kick him out. If he has violated the conduct requirements, then it would be no different from other offenses.

[Asher]

No, that's not right at all. If the soldier has not violated the conduct while he was in the service, then they couldn't kick him out.

They can and they do.

Do some research...

[Asher]

Ben,

Are you aware that "Don't Ask / Don't Tell" explicitly forbids same-sex relationships, even if it's well away from the military and they're off-duty?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/11/30/EDGTH39QR51.DTL

It has been evident for some time that the policy has failed to serve either of its objectives: Respecting the privacy of gay and lesbian soldiers and preserving military readiness. Far from preserving privacy, the policy has enabled an invasion into the personal lives of gay soldiers in astonishing ways. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" effectively prohibits gay soldiers from having any kind of romantic relationships in their private lives, no matter how discreet they are; even the friends and families of gay soldiers frequently have been interrogated by military investigators looking for "incriminating" information. Many service members have been fired for doing nothing more than talking about being gay in private with friends, family and loved ones.

You are portraying this as something that basically makes sexuality irrelevant -- if you don't "make an issue out of it" while on duty nothing happens. In reality, if somebody finds out you kissed a man while on vacation in the North Pole, you get kicked out of the military. It is demanding homosexuals not only lead a double live to not let anyone even suspect they may be gay, it is demanding they be completely celibate for all of their years of service. That's not a case of "not making an issue out of it", it's demanding that gay soldiers pretend to be straight or -- at worst -- asexual. That's an affront to freedom, and it's something any genuinely freedom-loving American should be concerned about.