You May Have a Woman's Brain

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Agathon
But sexuality is hardwired. In our culture, homosexuals have been treated like frilly pink frock wearing men, so the whole culture is set up to punish homosexual behaviour and reward heterosexual behaviour. It would be a miracle if anyone was gay at all, if it just had to do with cultural norms.

Once more you have completely misunderstood what someone was saying.

I am not saying that it is just cultural norms. I am saying that cultural norms play a factor.

You still find people living as straight who are really gay. This is due to cultural norms. Additionally, a lot of gay people in the past (and still, but I think not as much as the culture gets more accepting) have felt stress as they have felt they should be straight but internally they are gay.

Just like it is possible for a (biologically) gay person to live as a straight. It is possible for a (biologically) straight person to live as a gay.

Now what set of 'straight' people would do so? Those who are traditionally been told that they acted like gay or those who are in the current groups that say that everyone is Bi.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Mr Snuggles

Some others I know who were called gay did become Bi. I don't know them really now, but I will note that you can become confused by being gay and being called straight.. or by being straight and being called gay.

If you recall, you called yourself Bi for a while.

It is one of the stepping stones to acceptance that most gay teenagers use.

Thanks for the "If you recall" bit though, made me smirk.

Are you bi friends cute?

It was more "if everyone else here recalls" than you in particular. This conversation isn't just between us. I admit I could have worded it better.

So why can't you understand the invese. Someone being told they are Gay and being internally Straight and using being Bi to be what they are told to be and be true to who they are internally at the same time?

JM

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Jon Miller

Just like it is possible for a (biologically) gay person to live as a straight. It is possible for a (biologically) straight person to live as a gay.

Nah... the culture runs the other way, as I said. It is possible, but I bet you can't find many.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Agathon


Nah... the culture runs the other way, as I said. It is possible, but I bet you can't find many.

The culture isn't uniform. It is a known fact that in many groups women are very strongly encouraged to be at least Bi. This is cultural pressure.

Including, I know of soceital groups where the men are also expected to be at least Bi.

If soceity (family, freinds, other people) are telling you that you have a sexuality, then then the culture pressure is that way.

JM

[Asher]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


It was more "if everyone else here recalls" than you in particular. This conversation isn't just between us. I admit I could have worded it better.

So why can't you understand the invese. Someone being told they are Gay and being internally Straight and using being Bi to be what they are told to be and be true to who they are internally at the same time?

JM

I think it is possible but I think it takes TREMENDOUS societal pressure from virtually all angles (family, friends, religion, work) to force someone to pretend to be someone of another sexuality. This is absolutely the case for many gays pretending to be straight, but the argument of overwhelming societal pressure from all angles to make a straight person pretend to be gay is pretty silly.

[Jon Miller]

I have often had various angles (family, freinds, classmates) doubt my heterosexuality. I know people who have had higher pressure than me.

JM

[Asher]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I have often had various angles (family, freinds, classmates) doubt my heterosexuality. I know people who have had higher pressure than me.

JM

Doubting your heterosexuality is not the same thing as threatening physical violence or complete disowning...

[Jon Miller]

True, I am not maintaining that there are straights who have the as extreme prssure as some homosexuals feel to live in a sexuality that isn't their own. However, the pressure of shunning and expecations is still pressure.

JM

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Mr Snuggles
FWIW, no one called me gay when I was young or even in highschool.

I was called gay once in elementary school.

I promptly broke down and cried, because I was straight, dammit! I also stomped my feet for a bit, but.

Turns out having a girlfriend in high school helps allay others' suspicions.

Of course, then not actually being in a couple/coupling for the years of college and some time thereafter makes people think you're ambiguous and asexual instead.

Which is also all right by me.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Jon Miller

The culture isn't uniform. It is a known fact that in many groups women are very strongly encouraged to be at least Bi.

By "many groups" you of course mean the porn industry.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Agathon


By "many groups" you of course mean the porn industry.

Che also said in his communist group.

Also, in some college (and highschool?) groups.

JM

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Jon Miller

Che also said in his communist group.

He of course means the people who say they are bi to look cool or as some sort of ridiculous political act.

A friend of mine was like this. He'd proclaim his bisexuality and talk about the men he could see himself having sex with. This went on for a couple of years, and everyone who knows him is saying: "There's no way that dude is ****ing gay. Who's he trying to kid?"

In the end he admitted that he was straight and was really offended when everyone he told said "Yeah, we know".

[Ben Kenobi]

That's gender roles. There's a distinction between sexuality and gender. Gender is a social construct.

For example, most men would absolutely refuse to wear a delightful frilly pink frock in public. Some women would refuse to do so as well, but the reasons they do so have everything to do with cultural norms. It's conceivable that the norm in our culture could be such that men would not be seen dead in anything other than a frilly pink frock.

But sexuality is hardwired. In our culture, homosexuals have been treated like frilly pink frock wearing men, so the whole culture is set up to punish homosexual behaviour and reward heterosexual behaviour. It would be a miracle if anyone was gay at all, if it just had to do with cultural norms.

I don't know very many gay men who wear pink frilly frocks.

Seriously, I think there is a great amount of social pressure against the traditional gender roles. Maybe not you, but then you are an old fart. If you look at most of the role models for young men, you'd be hard pressed to find any that weren't 'metrosexual'. Same with the women. How many of the women here would enjoy dressing up in a pink frilly frock? Not many.

I don't believe the pressure is at all the way you see it Agathon. Honestly I think everyone wants acceptance and if a guy doesn't get that from women, it's easy to understand why they would turn away from them.

[Asher]

Seriously, I think there is a great amount of social pressure

If you think that's social pressure, try being gay?

christ, scope check here Benny.

[Q Classic]

Actually, as a gay male, one can get plenty of acceptance from women.

I mean, look at Todd from Scrubs. The episode where he "came out", he suddenly got a lot of female friends.

This, after he was hitting on them and making dick jokes the entire time before.