Now that Obama has declared victory... Why is he so weak?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

STFU commie.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe

True enough by virtue of the ground under my feet shifting left.

What was centrist is now hard right.
For example I was agnostic/skeptical about invading Iraq. Today I still hold to we did it we are responsible for fixing it. That today sounds very hard right on these forums.

First part: ok (though I think you exaggerate), but that's a different claim than the one I originally responded to.

Second part: I don't think that qualifies as "very hard right" here. I was against the invasion, and still think that we have a responsibility to try and figure out a way to prevent all-out chaos upon our departure. I am not branded a wingnut, and my position is within spitting distance of your own.

You've developed a persecution complex.

-Arrian

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Arrian


First part: ok (though I think you exaggerate), but that's a different claim than the one I originally responded to.

Second part: I don't think that qualifies as "very hard right" here. I was against the invasion, and still think that we have a responsibility to try and figure out a way to prevent all-out chaos upon our departure. I am not branded a wingnut, and my position is within spitting distance of your own.

You've developed a persecution complex.

-Arrian

Not so much. Your view is tolerated here mostly because you like to bash Bush. Were you to actually call a spade a spade and point out that much of the political chicanery going on to day is actually injurious to the goals you would also be branded a hack and right wing nutjob.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe

For example I was agnostic/skeptical about invading Iraq. Today I still hold to we did it we are responsible for fixing it. That today sounds very hard right on these forums.

LIAR!

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Really?? What is the falsity?

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe

Not so much. Your view is tolerated here mostly because you like to bash Bush. Were you to actually call a spade a spade and point out that much of the political chicanery going on to day is actually injurious to the goals you would also be branded a hack and right wing nutjob.

I bash Bush because he is a terrible President. It brings me no joy.

I don't even understand the rest of your post, sorry. What chicanery, specifically? What spade shall I name? Who would call me hack?

I call spades spades all the time, Ogie. See the "bashing Bush" part.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Bah, time to go play softball, which is better than this anyway.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

30% approve of Bush's Presidency. So therefore, I'd imagine the "center" would naturally not like the current Administration.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't think you're giving enough consideration to the three recent special elections. All three were deep red seats and Democrats won all three. Bush and his enablers in Congress are dragging down the entire Republican Party. It's looking like a tidal wave is coming.

1. It's premature to coronate Obama until he's done with Hillary. You've got another 3 months of convention fun before this happens.

2. McCain is polling well above 'generic republican'. You can speculate all you want about a coming tide, I don't believe Idaho will go Democrat.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I don't like him either, but for reasons probably most on these boards probably don't share. Namely excessive domestic spending, new entitlements (senior prescription benefits) etc.

On the other hand, I shudder to think the opposition party alternatives.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Really?? What is the falsity?

You were pro-war.

[Ben Kenobi]

IN the primary, more people voted from Obama than turned out for the Republican Primary.

Again, it's irrelevant. Do you sincerely believe that the turnout in the general election will be 2-1. I look at the raw numbers, not the ratio. If the raw numbers were over the total voting in the general election, then yes, there would be cause for concern. The ratio means nothing, given that there is a close race in one, and the other is no contest.

So Ben, do you have anything even remotely close to evidence for your statement about Obama being in "trouble" in Pennsylvania, or is it just a groundless opinion based on your particular political bent?

The fact that he lost to Hillary by 10 percentage points, and the fact that he only carried the Philadelphia city is cause for concern. Neither of these are subject to partisan analysis. It's a fact that Obama does terrible among rural voters and small cities no matter where he does. He needs these people who are voting Hillary to back him or he will lose to McCain.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

@Che,


I was pro war in that I supported the proposition that we had legal standing to go to war. I was not however prowar in that it was necessarily wise to do so.

I made the case that we hadn't proved enough of a case to allies despite the fact that France, Germany etal were a bunch of pansy hand wringing wimps. Despite that the routine violation of UN treaty by Saddam's Iraq allowed (in my view) resumption of hostilities against Iraq.

A Colin Powell stance as it were. We had the right to do so. If we did invade, it was a "You break it you buy it scenario".

[chequita guevara]

McCain is the pro-war candidate, and people believe Obama is the antiwar candidate, and 70% of the American people want us out of Iraq. Unless they catch Obama fiddling with a little boy, it will be pretty damn hard for him to lose.

This is an election in which the party in power, which is seen to be the GOP, is going to swept from office. McCain is campaigning on continuing the same old policies. Obama is campaigning as an insurgent. And McCain is vulnerable on his key attribute with moderates, his supposed integrity.

[Ben Kenobi]

McCain is the pro-war candidate, and people believe Obama is the antiwar candidate, and 70% of the American people want us out of Iraq. Unless they catch Obama fiddling with a little boy, it will be pretty damn hard for him to lose.

It's easy for him to lose in the 57 states of america.