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Should your country boycott the Olympics?

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  • Wezil-

    Well, it has some admirable aspects, namely that it functions in some sense as Scientology- in that it arguably improves bodily and mental health. The qigong exercises practiced by its members are similar to that practiced by other groups.

    Another admirable aspect from another end is that its existence bespeaks the development of a type of civil society in China, in that the group organized.

    However,

    While I am not a FG expert, here is my understanding:

    The danger of Falun Gong is that it also possesses many of the aspects of cults-
    1.) Its members don't brook dissent among the ranks from their holy book. (which is similar in some ways to major religions- yes) [Interestingly, their "founder" who wrote the "holy book" wasn't even in the country when the religion started morphing and developing.]
    2.) When criticised, its members tend to gather in large groups and stand in protests. Not just against news stations, but against other people. Arguably when they protested against the government that was a good thing becuase it demonstrated desire for pluralism of power and respect for practice of religion. However, any criticism of FG, even unofficial, resulted in large mobilizations that shut down TV stations, newspapers, and demanded not that the news stories be neutral but that all news be positive about their group. They resorted to coercion and threats. Perhaps this is understandable in light of China's tendency to crack down on said religions groups- but FG also tends to act in such an insular manner in other countries in a search for legitimacy.
    3.) Generally it acted as a political and mobilization group rather than as a religion. What began as merely a method to practice qigong exercises morphed into a place to meet and discuss things, and including ostracism of other members who did not conform, and demands for money to be donated to "the cause."
    4.) They promise that through magical means that people's lives can be extended and they can do magical things. (Shades of the militant turn of the century boxers)
    5.) Basically, they are a step below militant religious groups, but more politically active than say the scientologists- they have a daily paper that's available in DC for free- The Epoch Times, I believe, if you'd like to see their news reporting style.

    The chinese government statement is here.

    It's pretty weak.

    Here's a fair (possible fairer than my) analysis by TIME:
    http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...165166,00.html I tend, however to disagree with the assertions that they exert pressure to join- from my knowledge they do. As for "required to donate" I understand it's "heavily encouraged" even moreso than the Catholic tithing.

    and here's a realtively anti FG site:


    Perhaps my vitriol is a bit over-the-top, but Falun Gong's overly-positive press coverage leaves a nasty taste in my mouth- while it may not be "evil", I'm pretty convinced that it is a cult.
    Last edited by DarkCloud; April 13, 2008, 20:58.
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    • I think my religious views are well known here so I'm not all defending them, I just don't see them as all that different from most religions. Quite frankly I don't see them anywhere near the Scientologists (if only they would stand in silent protest...).
      "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
      "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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      • Oh, crossposting a response to a PM by Ben:

        ---
        I think this is from a fair article:

        "A salient conclusion is that Falun Gong has two faces: that of an ancient spiritual tradition whose teachings are of genuine value to those who practice it; and that of a bizarre belief system focused on Li Hongzhi as far more than a prophet: he is portrayed as the possessor of unique supernormal abilities and the savior of the world, and claims, among other things, that his teachings are at ¡°¡­a higher level than those of Buddha and Christ¡­¡±. The case can be made that, unfortunately, Li Hongzhi: (a) has appropriated valuable ancient Chinese spiritual teachings; (b) amalgamated them with his own views of himself as prophet, miracle worker, and savior, (c) has used his influence on practitioners in a manner that may jeopardize their health and safety, and (d) encourages behavior that may complicate worldwide efforts to contain infectious diseases, including SARS."

        "Public health concerns are unavoidable. In Li Hongzhi¡¯s own words (his speeches and writings publicly available on the internet) he encourages his followers to refuse medical care and practice Falun Gong teachings and exercises to heal their illness. He explicitly includes disciples displaying SARS-like symptoms (difficulty in breathing accompanied by pain), saying that meditating together with their like-minded colleagues ¨C not medical care ¨C will help cure them. Of outsiders who succumb to SARS, Li Hongzhi says ¡°¡­it's Heaven punishing people. ¡­ it's targeting those who don't deserve to be saved, people who are impossible to save while [my] disciples clarify the truth.¡± Disturbingly, the ¡°undeserving¡± includes courageous medical personnel who have treated SARS victims at risk to themselves."
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        You appear to be correct that outside of the chinese authorities, there do not appear to be any issues of deprogramming or forcing people not to leave.

        In the sense that these factors do not appear to be present (at least in an internet search- I have yet to come across any academic books analyzing the phenomena, you are correct.) But there does appear to be brainwashing of a sort.

        In this sense, they are as upsetting and backwards as Christian Scientists in refusal of medical treatment and in terms of endangerment to society, and they are near-militant in demands, and they are commanded by a leader who could theoretically become dangerous and the members are possessed with a strange sort of fanaticism, but indeed, you are correct that I can locate no US-based need for deprogramming or force to live in communal dwellings and give up everything for the cause.
        -
        A final statement I'll make is this: Yes, the Chinese government has responded extremely nastily to FG. You can easily read tales of atrocities and human right violations practiced against the group if you would like to look into it.
        Last edited by DarkCloud; April 13, 2008, 21:19.
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        • Yeah I had some specific questions that I thought would be best answered via pm.

          Thanks DC!
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          • Gotcha. I elaborated slightly in the post above, but the basic info was roughly the same... Guess we're done derailing the thread for now... let's get back on track (apologies, the response to the other post may take another day or two.)
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            • Sorry for still not responding in full, but this article does illustrate a bit of what I meant that if the communist party goes under, a nationalist china is not necessarily a good thing:

              http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=ht...D3rWJQ3BcQ5EW6!W2a

              If that doesn't work, it's the article:"Chinese Student In U.S. is Caught in Confrontation"

              For expressing beliefs of tolerance and dialogue, this Chinese student was branded a traitor and Chinese american students called for her to be killed. Her parents have been harassed, with dog feces left on their door, etc.
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              -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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              • China won this round:

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                • Yup, France has surrendered to the Chinese.
                  “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                  "Capitalism ho!"

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                  • They just hit back and made the Dalai Lama and a Chinese human rights activists honorary citizens of Paris:

                    Blah

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                    • This whole thing is so trendy faggy wimpy. Get over it already. China is having the Olympics and we should go. All the latte drinking fvcks need re-education and self criticism.

                      I really think we should go. And I really think the boycott crap is late and opportunistic.

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                      • John Pilger, a documentary film maker, said that Australia shouldn't have held the 2000 olympics due to the mistreatment of the Aboriginal peoples, due to their third-world treatment in terms of health, economy and law

                        but then again its been said that all countries have blood under their fingernails
                        "Life is the only RPG you'll ever play, The religious want to be one with the moderator, the scientists want to hack the game, and the gamers want to do both."

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                        • Maybe the US should give back some land before having an Olympics here again too... (and join the commonwealth?)

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                          • i'm just saying no country is perfect

                            does that mean we can undo history? no

                            but can we try to make amends with the peoples that still exist? I think that's worth working on
                            "Life is the only RPG you'll ever play, The religious want to be one with the moderator, the scientists want to hack the game, and the gamers want to do both."

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                            • Originally posted by Zkribbler
                              No boycott. We boycotted the Moscow Olympics when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, and the end result was we only hurt our athletes.

                              The Olympics should be above politics.
                              True that.
                              And I agree with those who say that the very Olympics drew more attention to the Tibetan issue than if there were no Games held in China.
                              Also, why this special attention to the Tibetans anyway?
                              Free Uigur! Free "insert Russian autonomous province here"! Free ...

                              The Games sare an opportunity to promote freedom of expression in China, it is fully necessary to demand transparency of the happenings in Tibet and to demand the Chinese to halt violent handling of things but, as a general rule, don't hijack the Olympics for political means.
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                              • IMO the Olympics were never really above politics and I think having them should *not* mean that everyone has to ignore political realities. That said, I'm against a boycott, but then I don't care that much about the games itself. DanS has it right IMO. If China gets intl criticism before and during the games it's their own fault. It's not that other countries have never been criticized for doing stuff.
                                Blah

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