Should your country boycott the Olympics?

[Aeson]

... it's neck and neck to see who can be the biggest ass about this once again! Gotta love the Olympic spirit!

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia


Either way I'd say within 20 years or so, the country will have assimilated economically with the rest of the world. By that time they may have begun to assimilate culturally and politically too. Although I think your statement is premature at this point I think it will become true within our lifetimes.

The CCP will have a serious crisis before the end of the next 20 years. Let's see what becomes of that before we assume cultural and political assimilation.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by Wezil
The CCP will have a serious crisis before the end of the next 20 years. Let's see what becomes of that before we assume cultural and political assimilation.

You could well be right on that issue. It seems like right now the government is borrowing whatever it can from foreign legislature concerning economic policy, having abandoned the command structure economy it had earlier. It may or may not succeed in doing this fast enough to create a wealthy middle class, which will act as the buffer between the discontented workers and the ruling elite.

More critical is the issue of political reforms. If they can't get a handle on that, you could be right. Although I think the urgency of democratic change and religious freedom for the average Chinese person is probably overstated somewhat currently, I can see it becoming more of an issue ten, twenty years in the future when the average Chinese citizen is making enough to be well off and now wants political reforms and a participatory government.

Hopefully for everybody in the general neighborhood they can accomplish this without bloodshed. A bloodless transition to a more open government may be possible but it seems that most of the reformers in the government are cowed into silence by party ideology. That may change in the coming decade.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
More critical is the issue of political reforms. If they can't get a handle on that, you could be right. Although I think the urgency of democratic change and religious freedom for the average Chinese person is probably overstated somewhat currently, I can see it becoming more of an issue ten, twenty years in the future when the average Chinese citizen is making enough to be well off and now wants political reforms and a participatory government.

That is precisely it. I see the "trigger" being a serious economic slowdown which absolutely must and will occur when you consider the phenomenal growth of the Chinese economy over the last number of years.

I don't have faith in the CCP to handle such a situation well as they have a proven record of turning to oppression when people don't "understand" them.

[BeBMan]

Police in southern China have discovered a factory manufacturing Free Tibet flags, media reports say.

The factory in Guangdong had been completing overseas orders for the flag of the Tibetan government-in-exile.

Workers said they thought they were just making colourful flags and did not realise their meaning.

But then some of them saw TV images of protesters holding the emblem and they alerted the authorities, according to Hong Kong's Ming Pao newspaper.

Tibet independence

The factory owner reportedly told police the emblems had been ordered from outside China, and he did not know that they stood for an independent Tibet.

Workers who had grown suspicious checked the meaning of the flag by going online.

Thousands of flags had already been packed for shipping.

Police believe that some may already have been sent overseas, and could appear in Hong Kong during the Olympic torch relay there this week.


The flag of the Tibet government-in-exile
Known as the Snow Lion Flag
Introduced in 1912
Banned in mainland China

Inside Tibet: Clickable guide
The authorities have now stepped up the inspection of cars heading to the Shenzen Special Economic Zone and onwards to Hong Kong.

The Olympic torch is due to tour Hong Kong on Friday. It will then travel to a series of cities in mainland China before reaching Beijing for the start of the Olympic Games in August.

Its progress around the world has been marked by pro-Tibet demonstrations in several cities - including Paris, London and San Francisco.

Rallies began in the main Tibetan city of Lhasa on 10 March, led by Buddhist monks.

Over the following week protests spread and became violent - particularly in Lhasa, where ethnic Chinese were targeted and shops were burnt down.

Beijing cracked down on the protesters with force, sending in hundreds of troops to regain control of the restive areas.

But it has since agreed to resume talks with representatives of the Dalai Lama.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7370903.stm

[LordShiva]

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Bosh
The Seoul Chinese embassy was closely involved in organizing the demonstration, through the local Chinese student association as can be seen in the huge numbers of MASSIVE flags that can be seen.

Any chance of deportation hearings for some of the people in those pics?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia


...they demonstrated in the countries in exile, too. The Chinese exchange students at my law school don't condone violence, but they were very shocked at how hostile the other nations were towards China about this.

Well, the "anti-China" protesters represent a small group of people in each nation, not all of them nationals of that nation. So saying that others nations are being hostile is an oversimplication. Unfortunately, it is the common argument to support the modern victimization of China standpoint. South Korean certainly doesn't hate China (at least before these incidents). Most of it's protesters were North Korean refugees.

Another difference is the extremist attitude of the Chinese counter-protesters. Actually physical attacks and death threats is crossing a line. I certainly disagreed with the more aggressive antics of the pro-Tibet side, but it was tame compared to how the Chinese have responded. What makes it worse is that many of the protesting Chinese are students. They are guests in a foreign country. To attack and harrass locals is inexcusable. And to do so in Korea is stupid. Koreans are ****ing crazy!

Certainly this is a case of certain *******s ruining for the whole group. But while the Chinese are watching the protests crying, "Why do they hate us?" Everyone else watching them are thinking, "Why are they so aggressive?"

Frankly, most people don't really care about the pro-Tibet protests or any for that matter. However, what they do notice is how the other side reacts. I'd say that it is not the protestors who are ruining China's Olympics and embarrassing China.

That said, I agree that the torch protests were misguided. And since they were deliberately trying to provoke reactions from China, they can't be too surprised by the response.

One more thing, I know that in China it is basically considered a loss of face to become overtly angry. Generally, it is behavior reserved for foreigners/barbarians (red-faced foreigners/Tingkai). So I find a lot of the Chinese reaction to be strange in this regard. I keep wondering when "Chinese Rage Boy" pics will surface.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by BeBro
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7370903.stm

I wonder if there was a "Made in China" tag

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by DaShi
One more thing, I know that in China it is basically considered a loss of face to become overtly angry. Generally, it is behavior reserved for foreigners/barbarians (red-faced foreigners/Tingkai). So I find a lot of the Chinese reaction to be strange in this regard. I keep wondering when "Chinese Rage Boy" pics will surface.

Yes, it's a little like the situation in Tibet regarding the Dalai Lama. In both China and in Tibet, you have an older generation that seems to have political interests in mind - the Dalai Lama for example is aware that military or partisan unrest by Tibetans could seriously hurt whatever fragile peace they have there.

Likewise, the Chinese government is currently aware that its international reputation is on the line and is trying to find a way of either deflecting international criticism or complying (at least outwardly) with the community's demands.

In both cases, what the young generation wants may be a completely different matter. If you take the Dalai Lama at his face word (and I'm inclined to do so) then he had nothing to do with the riots in Tibet. I think it's entirely plausible that they sprang up because of a deeply dissatisfied younger generation, resenting China's policies on education and work, and furthermore a generation who's too young to remember the 1969 military action and who therefore doesn't have much political capital in the Dalai Lama's message of peaceful negotiations.

Likewise, overseas Chinese youths may be indifferent to the WTO interests and world reputation concerns of the Chinese government, which would at the very least be irrelevant to their lives in their host countries.

[DaShi]

I've heard that the younger generation has lost a lot of the aspects of Chinese culture that they older generation still holds dear. I seem to remember hearing an argument (here or somewhere else) darkly pointed out by a Chinese citizen that the CCP has done a better job of protecting Tibetan culture than their own.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Well the CCP certainly spends a very large amount of money on Tibet. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on who you are. Some local Tibetans see the economic development but believe it unfairly targets Han Chinese majority. Meanwhile, an equal and opposite Han Chinese viewpoint asks where their tax money goes and believe it's unfairly targeting the Tibetan minority.

(Rather similar to the affirmative action argument in the US, but with considerably less legal rigor applied by the courts and legislatures.)

I remember when the Olympics were first announced in 2001, I was in Beijing and the taxi drivers were talking about the city's plans to install navsat technology on the taxis to improve visitor service during the Games. I don't know what the connection was, but the drivers were saying (some negatively, some neutrally) that it was an ambitious plan and if the government tried to do it all in one budget, then Tibet wouldn't get any funding at all. Like I said, there were some taxi drivers who resented the government's decision to funnel so much funding to Tibet, although that probably stems more from their economic interest rather than any ethnic division.

[Bosh]

It is very doubtful that anyone will be deported over what happened in Seoul. The Korean government really doesn't want to piss of the Chinese.

As far as a backlash from loony Korean nationalists, I'm not really seeing that much either. The people who got beat up were mostly pro-Tibetan and anti-North Korean and most of the Korean nationalists don't really give a crap about those issues. In fact the wackier wing of Korean nationalism tends to be really in denial about the North Korean regime ("our Korean brothers could never do wrong!") so I don't see them getting too worked up about anti-North Korean demonstrators getting beat up.

But we'll see, maybe some of the pics and videos are graphic enough to get people stirred up who're outside the usual suspects.

[Bosh]

Heeeeere we go, I don't expect this to be very big but it should be interesting to see what happens:

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200804/200804290016.html

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Bosh
It is very doubtful that anyone will be deported over what happened in Seoul. The Korean government really doesn't want to piss of the Chinese.

Why would deporting criminals caught on tape assaulting citizens of their host country upset the Chinese?