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  • #31
    Re: Re: Cannabis legalization

    Originally posted by Kidicious
    Personally I think Cannabis should be legalized, because people should be free to decide what they want to do with their own bodies,
    Worst possible argument. So people should be able to smoke crack also?
    Actually I would say yes. But I would also accept a continued ban on crack cocaine would be reasonable. The point with cannabis is that is so harmless, widely used, and non-addictive.

    and because it seems to be less dangerous than for example alcohol or tobacco.
    What does that have to do with anything?
    Umm, everything? We ban things based on how dangerous they are. Comparing a substance to a currently legal substance is a good way to put things in perspective.

    And because the current prohibition puts lots of money in the hands of criminals, money which could go to the government as tax.
    The money still goes somewhere if it is legal. The only difference is taht you've made it legal. So now the govt is the drug dealer. What is teh purpose of this part of your argument?
    Right now the drug money is for example financing a drug war which is destabilizing Mexico, and various gang wars in US cities. If the government was your drug dealer, like the government currently is for alcohol and tobacco, the same money would enable the government to for example lower taxes on work.

    How can you propose to legalize something that you haven't even tried? And also, why wouldn't you ever try it?
    If I tried it I would know what the trip was like. It would not tell me what the long-term health-effects. Cannabis is well enough known that I can perfectly well read what the health effects are

    I don't see why I should be required to try something before I can say whether it should be legal.

    I just don't feel the need to try it. I am not afraid of it.

    Waht a bunch of nonsense. Legalizing marijuana is not going to decrease usage. Legalizing alcohol certainly has not. I mean who the hell would want to buy their pot from someone when they have no recourse when they get ripped off. If you buy it in the store you can get your money back if it's bunk or at the least you can call teh BBB. Making pot legal is just going to encourage more usage just like alcohol and tobacco.
    I don't see why making it legal should decrease usage, I don't see any mechanism why should make it so. But the empirical data point from the Netherlands sounds strong enough that I accept it as possible.

    If people were using cannabis instead of tobacco or alcohol I would see it as a very good thing(tm). It is less long-term damaging that either, and less addictive than either. Unlike alcohol, it is impossible to take an overdose. And unlike alcohol, people are less likely to become violent when intoxicated.
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    • #32
      As far as I am aware, cannabis has far fewer negative health effects than tobacco or alcohol. For example smoking it doesn't seem to corrolate with lung cancer.
      It does, however, have the effect of making you sit on your couch all day watching Aqua Teen instead of getting a job. Very costly to society
      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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      • #33
        In a truly free society, drugs for recreational purposes would be legal. I support legalization and regulation.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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        • #34
          HST advocated horrible death to anyone caught selling bad drugs.
          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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          • #35
            Re: Re: Re: Cannabis legalization

            Originally posted by Thue
            Actually I would say yes.
            So crack, ice and junk might as well be legal. That would be no problem for you. Wow!
            The point with cannabis is that is so harmless, widely used, and non-addictive.
            Pot is not harmless at all. There are very bad consequences to society and individuals that come from people using pot. Pot ****s your thinking all up, and I'm just not talking about when people are high. Have you ever tried to have a serious conversation with a habitual pot user? If you had you would know that pot is in no way harmless.

            And what about the way they live their lives. Eating all that junk food all the time. At concerts who do you think stands right by the giant speakers. That's just a couple of ways stoners take care of themselves. That's not to mention the fact that stoners will usually use other drugs as well.
            Umm, everything? We ban things based on how dangerous they are. Comparing a substance to a currently legal substance is a good way to put things in perspective.
            Exactly how does a measure of how dangerous alcohol is to us tell us how dangerous pot is for us and whether or not it should be illegal or legal? Nothing. Your comparision is meaningless.
            Right now the drug money is for example financing a drug war which is destabilizing Mexico, and various gang wars in US cities. If the government was your drug dealer, like the government currently is for alcohol and tobacco, the same money would enable the government to for example lower taxes on work.
            Making pot legal is not going to stop the drug war, which raises teh question again as to whether you think all drugs should be legal. So is this just a step in the overall effort to legalize all drugs?
            If I tried it I would know what the trip was like. It would not tell me what the long-term health-effects. Cannabis is well enough known that I can perfectly well read what the health effects are

            I don't see why I should be required to try something before I can say whether it should be legal.

            I just don't feel the need to try it. I am not afraid of it.
            Just don't feel like trying it?! Why not? Don't you want to be happy? Don't you know that pot makes you high? What is wrong with being high?
            I don't see why making it legal should decrease usage, I don't see any mechanism why should make it so. But the empirical data point from the Netherlands sounds strong enough that I accept it as possible.
            Empirical data doesn't necessarily make something a fact. And in this case I think it's obvious that it's not a fact. Making a drug legal does not decrease usage.
            If people were using cannabis instead of tobacco or alcohol I would see it as a very good thing(tm). It is less long-term damaging that either, and less addictive than either. Unlike alcohol, it is impossible to take an overdose. And unlike alcohol, people are less likely to become violent when intoxicated.
            Tobacco is a very bad substance and so is alcohol. If anything those should be made illegal. But why in the world are you saying that another harmfull substance should be made legal?!
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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            • #36
              Originally posted by DanS
              With all of the socialized medicine in the first world, including the US, I think it more likely that tobacco will be outlawed than marijuana made legal.
              Think of all the lost revenue if they do ban Tobacco.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by DanS
                With all of the socialized medicine in the first world, including the US, I think it more likely that tobacco will be outlawed than marijuana made legal.
                like socialized medicine in the Netherlands
                Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
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                • #38
                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Cannabis legalization

                  Originally posted by Kidicious
                  Pot is not harmless at all. There are very bad consequences to society and individuals that come from people using pot. Pot ****s your thinking all up, and I'm just not talking about when people are high.

                  Have you ever tried to have a serious conversation with a habitual pot user? If you had you would know that pot is in no way harmless.


                  kid, did you do the voiceover in 'refer madness' by any chance?
                  "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                  "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                  • #39
                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cannabis legalization

                    Originally posted by C0ckney
                    kid, did you do the voiceover in 'refer madness' by any chance?


                    The actual opening of Reefer Madness

                    "The motion picture you are about to witness may startle you. It would not have been possible, otherwise, to sufficently emphasize the frightful toll of the new drug menace which is destroying the youth of America in alarmingly increasing numbers. Marihuana."
                    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                    • #40
                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cannabis legalization

                      Originally posted by C0ckney




                      kid, did you do the voiceover in 'refer madness' by any chance?
                      *reefer

                      And no. That film was financed by religionists.
                      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                      • #41
                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cannabis legalization

                        Originally posted by Wezil




                        The actual opening of Reefer Madness

                        "The motion picture you are about to witness may startle you. It would not have been possible, otherwise, to sufficently emphasize the frightful toll of the new drug menace which is destroying the youth of America in alarmingly increasing numbers. Marihuana."
                        It starts out realistic anyway.
                        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                        • #42
                          What sort of bad-assed weed have you smoked?
                          Ask my friends who tried it. They've all quit.
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                          • #43
                            I don't know them. You ask them.

                            I really want to know what kind of weed that will "affect you several days later".
                            "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                            "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                            • #44
                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Cannabis legalization

                              Originally posted by Kidicious
                              Pot is not harmless at all. There are very bad consequences to society and individuals that come from people using pot. Pot ****s your thinking all up, and I'm just not talking about when people are high. Have you ever tried to have a serious conversation with a habitual pot user? If you had you would know that pot is in no way harmless.
                              100%. Including memory loss, continual disorientation, slurred speech, depression, extreme weight gain, etc. I am also aware of circumstantial evidence for mental health disorders. However, the people I know/knew were heavy users (and may or may not be tainted by other drug use).

                              However, I dare say I am not my brother's keeper. Unless they affect me adversely, or they need help, let them do what they will.

                              The harder the drugs, the harder it is to claim that the user is not causing self-harm or societal problems.
                              One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Wezil
                                I don't know them. You ask them.

                                I really want to know what kind of weed that will "affect you several days later".
                                • Scientists have proven that marijuana users experience changes in the flow of blood to their brains. Ronald Herning of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) found that marijuana smokers may suffer from narrowed blood vessels in their brains, possibly explaining why smokers experience memory and thinking problems. (reported in the Chicago Sun Times, February 8, 2005 ).

                                Fact: Marjuana is physically harmful.


                                The brain. Smoking marijuana leads to some changes in the brain similar to those caused by cocaine, heroin and alcohol.

                                • According to Dr. Marvin Seppala, the Chief Medical Officer at the Hazelden Foundation, a prominent drug recovery center in Minnesota , "The younger people begin using marijuana, especially before the age of 21, the likelier they are to become addicted to an addictive substance. Their addiction is both physiological and psychological.Studies on the brain have shown that pot use alters the hippocampus and affects short-term memory.As an adolescent, there are remarkable experiences that contribute to growth.these need to be set down into memory—and pot use stops this." ( quoted in the Lakeland , Florida paper The Ledger, January 3, 2005 .)
                                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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