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Originally posted by Caligastia
What about bacon cheddar burgers with mayo? Should they be illegal too?
That's not a dangerous drug. Are you serious? Is this the best you've got?
At what point should an individual be permitted to decide for themselves?
Individuals are never permitted to decide fro themselves. Individuals don't make the laws, society does.
EDIT - Oh, and why do you think alcohol prohibition was ended? Because it was a roaring success?
Too many drunks. Alcoholism is a serious problem in our society. So much so that alcohol is a legal drug. The same will be said for marijuana if it is legalized. It will be a sad day for our society.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
That's not a dangerous drug. Are you serious? Is this the best you've got?
Where is the evidence that MJ is dangerous? There is none, as you already admitted. However, we know for a fact that bacon cheddar burgers with mayo can raise your cholesterol.
Individuals are never permitted to decide fro themselves. Individuals don't make the laws, society does.
So...every single aspect of an individual's life should be open to regulation by government?
Too many drunks. Alcoholism is a serious problem in our society. So much so that alcohol is a legal drug. The same will be said for marijuana if it is legalized. It will be a sad day for our society.
So MJ hasn't been legalized because it isn't a serious enough problem?
...people like to cry a lot...- Pekka ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority.- Snotty
Not in my experience, which trumps your confident assertions I'm afraid.
Marijuana negatively affects your intelligence for 28 days. You shouldn't really need to do a study to know that you are stupider while stoned and even for days afterwords, but in fact this study has shown that you are in fact stupider for 28 days after smoking marijuana.
Study: Intelligence, cognition unaffected by heavy marijuana use
By William J. Cromie
Gazette Staff
The new study of cognitive changes caused by heavy marijuana use has found no lasting effects 28 days after quitting. Following a month of abstinence, men and women who smoked pot at least 5,000 times in their lives performed just as well on psychological tests as people who used pot sparingly or not at all, according to a report in the latest edition of the Archives of General Psychiatry.
That's the good news. The bad news, not included in the study, is that most heavy users admit that pot has had a negative effect on their physical and mental health as well their functioning on the job and socially.
"If there's one thing I've learned from studying marijuana for more than a decade, it's that proponents and opponents of the drug will put opposite spins on these findings," says Harrison Pope, a Harvard professor of psychiatry and leader of the research. "One day I'll get a letter that will say, 'we are shocked that you are so irresponsible as to publish a report that claims marijuana is almost harmless. That's a terrible disservice to our children.' The next day, I'll get a letter complaining that I'm 'irresponsible for implying there's something wrong with smoking marijuana. You have set back the legalization (of marijuana) movement by 20 years.'
"As a scientist, I'm struck by how passionately people hold opinions in both directions no matter what the evidence says. The other striking thing is how little we actually know about the effects of a drug that has been smoked for thousands of years and been studied for decades."
Withdrawal produces impairment
That shortage of knowledge motivated Pope and his colleagues at McLean Hospital, a Harvard-affiliated psychiatric facility in Belmont, to investigate the drug's long-term cognitive effects. They recruited 180 people, 63 of them heavy users who currently smoked pot daily, 45 former heavy users, and 72 who had used the drug no more than 50 times in their lives. Heavy use was defined as smoking pot at least 5,000 times. The subjects ranged in age from 30 to 55 years. Most of them were males because studies indicate that women are less likely to become heavy marijuana users.
All took batteries of intelligence, attention, learning and memory tests on days 0, 1, 7, and 28 after quitting the drug. (Daily urine samples confirmed whether or not they had stopped.) On days 0, 1 and 7, current heavy smokers scored significantly lower then the other groups on memory tests.
"By day 28, however, there were no significant differences among the groups on any of 10 different tests, and no significant association between cumulative lifetime marijuana use and test scores," Pope says. In other words, the researchers conclude that heavy marijuana use produces no irreversible mental deficits.
The investigators cannot say for sure why pot smokers remain impaired for days or weeks after giving up the drug. One possibility is that that they retain substantial amounts of a compound known as THC, the active ingredient of marijuana, in their systems. THC dissolves in body fat, then slowly percolates into the blood and brain over days and weeks after a joint is smoked.
Another explanation blames a withdrawal effect, similar but not as pronounced as the agitation, irritability, sleeping problems and appetite loss suffered by users of heroin or alcohol. Such symptoms impair attention and memory.
"Some of the deficits we saw were as bad, or even worse on day seven as on day one," Pope notes. "This suggests that withdrawal, rather than a residue of drug in the brain, accounts for the bulk of lingering impairments." A residue effect should decrease from day one to seven after quitting, but withdrawal problems would increase before they decrease.
Pot smokers who believe they are back to normal sometimes show detectable impairments on various tests. "That's a cause for concern," Pope points out. "You don't want to try landing a 747, driving a bus or train, or taking a calculus test a week after heavy marijuana use even if you feel normal."
Unsatisfied lives
Although researchers found no irreversible cognitive defects from a lifetime of marijuana consumption, pot users are not a happy lot. In a separate study, most heavy users admitted that the drug has a negative impact on all aspects of their lives from job performance and physical health to mental well being and satisfactory socializing.
Heavy smokers also have substantially smaller incomes and lower levels of education than nonusers or light users, despite the fact that the education and income levels of their families are the same. However, there's no way to determine if marijuana is the cause or if these people naturally have less ambition.
"It's a chicken and egg situation," Pope admits. "Probably the direction of causality goes both ways. In all likelihood, people who become frequent users are somewhat different at the outset; they may have lower cognitive abilities or less motivation. Once they start using the drug regularly, these differences become wider."
Asked if his conclusions would lead him to make any recommendations for or against legalizing marijuana, Pope answered "no, because so many other political and social factors are involved." He noted that alcohol, which is sold legally, causes cognitive deficits in long-term heavy users that do not disappear after 28 days and may be cumulative. However, he adds, "such toxicity is only one factor in the decision."
A number of investigations have linked marijuana to an increased risk of lung cancer. A recent Harvard study concluded that a middle-age person's chance of having a heart attack increases nearly five times during the first hour after smoking pot. That's especially meaningful for baby boomers who developed the habit in their teens and 20s and continue to use the drug in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. Other researchers have associated pot with impaired disease resistance and adverse effects on fetuses when mothers smoke the drug during pregnancy.
On the other hand, many claims exist that marijuana eases the nausea produced by cancer drugs and relives the pain of diseases such as AIDS, severe arthritis, and glaucoma. Such claims led Canada recently to legalize its medical use.
Pope raises a caveat: "Is it better than other treatments for the same conditions? Given the association with lung cancer and other ills, does it provide more benefit than risk?"
Pro-pot people argue that, even if it's only equal in efficacy to prescription and over-the-counter drugs, it's much cheaper. "After all, it's only a weed," Pope points out.
All of these factors emphasize Pope's point that not much is really known about marijuana despite its long history of use and decades of study.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Marijuana negatively affects your intelligence for 28 days. You shouldn't really need to do a study to know that you are stupider while stoned and even for days afterwords, but in fact this study has shown that you are in fact stupider for 28 days after smoking marijuana.
This study refers to heavy users, which does not describe most MJ smokers.
...people like to cry a lot...- Pekka ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority.- Snotty
Hmmm, when I was at college long ago I designed a 4-bit reversible arithmetic binary shift register using logic tables while under the influence of some very strong oil and using a completely different technique than the one we had been taught. My tutor was amazed and impressed at the method, and I built it very quickly and it worked first time.
I wasn't stupid that night.
But then again, most of what Kid does on these forums is to call people 'stupid'.
Marijuana negatively affects your intelligence for 28 days. You shouldn't really need to do a study to know that you are stupider while stoned and even for days afterwords, but in fact this study has shown that you are in fact stupider for 28 days after smoking marijuana.
What a silly argument. If the definition of a heavy smoker is that he smokes every day, and at least 5000 times (cf. article), then you will find few heavy users.
Besides, everything is unhealthy in large quantities: tobacco, weed, alcohol, coffee, food, gaming, tv, drinking too much water is unhealthy too. It's just the heavy users that have to be checked up on. And in most cases there's an underlying problem that causes the abuse. A depression, stress, family quarrels, financial problems etc etc could be the cause.
I think you're not seeing what is problematic. Weed isn't problematic, just go and ask the gazillions of people who smoke weed without hangovers or mental problems the day after. What is problematical are the people abusing it because they're messed up for some reason. They're the people we should be treating and helping.
PS: And I haven't even mentioned the vast possibilities the plants offer. They can be used for just about everything. Easy and cheap to grow and really useful, but sadly some puritan nutters decided to ban the crop
"An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
"Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca
Originally posted by Traianvs
What a silly argument. If the definition of a heavy smoker is that he smokes every day, and at least 5000 times (cf. article), then you will find few heavy users.
We don't know yet exactly what is making people stupid after smoking pot. Is it the withdrawl from addiction or is it the THC that remains in the brain after smoking a joint.
Still, though, pot still makes you stupid if you get addicted to it. I didn't intend to say for sure that just smoking a joint will make you stupid for long periods. I don't know. I've smoked pot over 5000 times and I quit and I think I'm fully recovered now intelligence wise, but it did take probably 28 days.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
The only reason to legalize weed is for medical purposes, and we already have Marinol for that. All the medical benefits of weed, without all the getting-stoned side effects.
Of course, the Legalize-It crowd hates Marinol, because it pretty much exposes them for the "But I Wanna Get Stoned" belief they really have.
Originally posted by Cort Haus
But then again, most of what Kid does on these forums is to call people 'stupid'.
I do not you liar. I tell people that they are mentally ill and I call them liars. Occasionally I call them igorant or irritating, but hardly ever do I call people stupid.
In fact, in this case I'm merely stating that people who smoke pot are stupid.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Originally posted by Caligastia
Well, I think we have to admit defeat. Face it people, Kidicious has utterly destroyed our arguments with his rigorous fact-finding and sound logic.
In fact THC stays in your system for about 28 days if I'm not mistaken. I hardly think a person has withdrawls for that long.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
MJ is not illegal because it does bad things to you physically. It is illegal because it impairs your judgement and thus has negative social consequences.
<Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.
Originally posted by snoopy369
MJ is not illegal because it does bad things to you physically. It is illegal because it impairs your judgement and thus has negative social consequences.
By that standard alcohol should also be illegal. At least Kid is consistent in that aspect.
...people like to cry a lot...- Pekka ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority.- Snotty
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