Hillary Clinton calls Bosnia sniper story a mistake

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious


That's quite different. So you don't think that a congregation understands their preacher better than outsiders do? Strange belief indeed. Have any argument to support that claim?

Not always. Especially when group think occurrs.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Do you think he approves of greedy black people, or believes that all black people aren't greedy? Come on now. You need to think twice about that. At the least realise that you are jumping to conclusions.

Conclusions? Instead of focusing on greed which pertains to all humans to some degree, he focused on "white" greed. I find that to be a curious distinction, especially considering his audience is almost entirely black. Focus on greed-parishioners can apply to own selves; focus on white greed-gets people really riled up but doesn't lead to personal change, which I thought was the point of a church.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Quite a bit in the case of Obama considering the moral underpinnings of Obama are linked strongly to the man in question. The entirety of the question is whether or not Obama feels one race is morally superior to another. Arguements abound on either side of the equation defending or refuting the assertion.

You still haven't explained the consequence of him thinking that blacks are morally superior to whites would be. Do you think he's going to put all the whites in a concentration camp or something?

Funny in my congregation it normally is refered to as the greed of people is a problem. The need to insinuate white into the equation is where the problems start.

How many black people are in your congregation? How many black preachers?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


Conclusions? Instead of focusing on greed which pertains to all humans to some degree, he focused on "white" greed. I find that to be a curious distinction, especially considering his audience is almost entirely black. Focus on greed-parishioners can apply to own selves; focus on white greed-gets people really riled up but doesn't lead to personal change, which I thought was the point of a church.

And that's why members of his church would have a better understanding of what he was saying. They would know whether or not he criticises only white greed or all greed. I really doubt that he only focuses on white people. I think this was just one particular sermon.

Btw, when I went to church we used to have one black preacher, who was very good, but very different from the white ones. Black preachers tend to have a very different perspective.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Not always. Especially when group think occurrs.

You're avoiding the point. He wasn't talking to white america. If he were he would probably use different language. He was talking to his congregation, and the use of the term "white" greed doesn't necessarily mean that all white people are greedy or that blacks are not.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious

You still haven't explained the consequence of him thinking that blacks are morally superior to whites would be. Do you think he's going to put all the whites in a concentration camp or something?

Come now don't be extremely dense. Obama has campaigned exclusively on the need for post racial attitudes and the need for all to be color blind. Refreshing view but one that may or may not be actually truthful for Obama.

How many black people are in your congregation? How many black preachers?

Why does that matter?

For the reocrd my congregational make up is approximately 15% black, 50% gay or lesbian, 35% hetero with kids.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe

Come now don't be extremely dense. Obama has campaigned exclusively on the need for post racial attitudes and the need for all to be color blind. Refreshing view but one that may or may not be actually truthful for Obama.

Opposed to Clinton and McCain using racist hate speech or something? Jesus, they all say they aren't prejudice. I don't really listen to that crap.

Why does that matter?

For the reocrd my congregational make up is approximately 15% black, 50% gay or lesbian, 35% hetero with kids.

Because black churches are very different from white churches.

Wow that's a lot of homosexuals? Is your church pro-homosexual or something?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious


You're avoiding the point. He wasn't talking to white america. If he were he would probably use different language. He was talking to his congregation, and the use of the term "white" greed doesn't necessarily mean that all white people are greedy or that blacks are not.

Ahh so I see when talking in a closed community it is perfectly appropriate to talk about them garlic nosed Eyetalaians and those greedy New York jews etc. Feeding the racist beast is perfectly appropraite as long as no one in the audience takes offense.

No Asleep hit it on the head. The point of sermonizing is to affect personal change and personal conversion. Speaking of white greed leaves those same greedy black people you acknowledge exist off the hook. If off the hook then why the rationale to include the white descriptor.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious



Wow that's a lot of homosexuals? Is your church pro-homosexual or something?

Open and affirming and completely nonjudgmental. Which is why Wrights stuff bothers me.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Ahh so I see when talking in a closed community it is perfectly appropriate to talk about them garlic nosed Eyetalaians and those greedy New York jews etc.

Stop just putting your words in my mouth. It's a very poor way to try to make your point.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Open and affirming and completely nonjudgmental. Which is why Wrights stuff bothers me.

Not judging people incorrectly takes a bit of effort.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Ahh so I see when talking in a closed community it is perfectly appropriate to talk about them garlic nosed Eyetalaians and those greedy New York jews etc.

It's "Hymietown"

[PLATO]

I am astounded that some people here don't really understand racism. I guess that is probably because most of you have not spent a significant amount of time in the South. Not that racism doesn't/didn't exist outside the South, but it has been a particular topic of discussion and action here in ways that most other parts of the country are not really as aware as people who live here are.

Kid, you ask on what basis I can say the things I did? That is easy enough to answer. I have been involved in lending to so called "sub prime" people for most of my career. While a lot of the people who fall into this category are white, I believe that a disproportionate amount of them are minorities...specifically blacks. In a large part this is due to the overt discriminations of the past and to some extent the covert discriminations of the present. While great strides have been made in working toward equality, there is much left to be done. Working in Memphis, TN for a number of years allowed me to see this very clearly and up close (In case you were not aware, the population of Memphis is 70-75% African American).

In having this experience, I was able to see up close and personal the many types of discriminations that still go on. In speaking with and working with many leaders of the black community there, it also became clear that there is racism on both sides of this issue. One of the main differences was that the black community offered (nor was any requested from anyone) no apologies for overt acts of racism. I have been to movie theaters where I was asked to leave at knife point simply because I was white...while a black police officer looked on.

Without exception, these acts of racism are justified, by Blacks, due to treatment they have received from Whites in the past or feel like they are receiving now.

Barrack Obama's church falls into this justification system. The fact that Obama has made this his church home for twenty years speaks volumes to me. This church does not preach equality, it teaches Black supremacy. That is equally as bad as white supremacy. Everyone turns there head to that though because of past injustices. This is the mindset that Obama has embraced. He is politically correct enough to shout a message of unity, but clearly he believes the tenants of his church or he would not be attending there. By any real definition of a racist, Barrack Obama qualifies.

To say anything else is showing a lack of understanding of what racism really is. Now, the question is: Will Obama overcome his racism to preside over a government that promotes equality? This is the same question that could have been asked of many White candidates in the past as well.

In Obama's case, I like to think he can, but the issue is certainly worth exploring and questioning him on.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious



Stop just putting your words in my mouth. It's a very poor way to try to make your point.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I repeated some of the allegations of wright.

Face it you attempt to allow Wirght off the hook by claiming context (racial, societal context). But from every objective appearance it would seem to be a means to inflame already existing prejudices by preaching to the choir.

[Heraclitus]

Hillary Clinton