Hillary Clinton calls Bosnia sniper story a mistake

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Aeson


So are you saying holding a prejudice against someone based on their race is not a choice?

No. If you think that's what I said you need to start over with a 1st Grade book. I said nothing of the kind, at least twice.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
No. If you think that's what I said you need to start over with a 1st Grade book. I said nothing of the kind, at least twice.

Prejudice based on race is a definition of racism. I was just trying to figure out how you are trying to pretend otherwise. Since you had mentioned that it requires you to make a choice, that's all I could come up with for your argument.

Perhaps you would care to explain further how prejudice based on race is not racism?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Well, I think fear is pretty hardwired and thats what we're talking about, right?

Prejudice. Fear can lead to prejudice surely, and may even be a type of prejudice. This doesn't discredit the definition of the term as a prejudice based on race.

Fear of the unknown takes many forms, and "Us & Them" is a big one. Once we become more familiar with "Them" the prejudice subsides and is replaced by good experiences.

There may be instinctual racist reactions hardwired into they human psyche, but we clearly have the ability to overcome those in time as you say.

That instinct, if we're going to term it a "prejudice", wouldn't be something you'd blame a person for, but it's still racist.

[SlowwHand]

Let me try this for at least the third time. If you go to a hamburger joint and alwats get a hamburger, not a chicken sandwich, that's a prejudice. A prefereance. There's nothing wrong with that. Turning prejudice into racism, that involves race, a blanket statement on a grroup of people, is extreme, and wrong.
Are you beginning to grasp the concept?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Let me try this for at least the third time. If you go to a hamburger joint and alwats get a hamburger, not a chicken sandwich, that's a prejudice. A prefereance.

A preference is not necessarily a prejudice, though it can be.

If you actively dislike or have an aversion to the chicken sandwich without ever having tried it, then you could be said to be prejudiced against that chicken sandwich.

If on the other hand you just like hamburgers, and so order hamburgers, that is a preference, but not a prejudice.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Of course there's nothing wrong with having preferences in sandwiches. (Well, unless your preferred sandwiches contain illegal fixings...)

Turning prejudice into racism, that involves race, a blanket statement on a grroup of people, is extreme, and wrong.

There's 2 ways to read this:

1. You are saying that racism is prejudice based on race, which is what I've been saying all along.

2. You are saying that it's wrong to say prejudice is racism. (Which technically would be correct, but misses the point since I've used "prejudice based on race", not just "prejudice".)

I'm not sure which you are trying to get at. Neither refutes me though.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Seems people are getting caught up on the meaning of words, so I'll throw my personal definitions into the pot.

Prejudice - literally means "pre judged" or making a judgment on something/someone before actual experience. This can be a positive or negative judgment. For example if I see an Asian and judge that he is good at match but is a bad driver I'd have been prejudiced towards him. An initial judgment from a prejudice is still mailable should later experience contradict it. Most prejudices are picked up from society or developed internally from numerous interactions (or sometimes one very strong interaction).

Stereotype - Is a societal level prejudice that encapsulates a particular factoid about a particular group. Most people pick up their prejudices from stereotypes in a self reinforcing "meme". In addition most stereotypes have some grain of truth to them, the group in question is statistically more likely to have the trait attributed too it.

Bigotry - Means to explicitly believe another group is inferior and all individuals in it are contemptible. Bigotry encompasses Prejudice but expands on it. When exposed to a member of said group that doesn't conform to the Prejudice a Bigot will not judge the individual on merit.

Racism - Is a societal level manifestation of Bigotry, a system that relegates a race to a second class citizen status.

[Berzerker]

This doesn't discredit the definition of the term as a prejudice based on race.

That aint the question, this is

Is prejudice, based on race, racism?

And the answer is, maybe...depends... Jesse Jackson was prejudicial in his fear of walking down an alley occupied by several black men. That was prejudice based on race but not racism...

There may be instinctual racist reactions hardwired into they human psyche, but we clearly have the ability to overcome those in time as you say.

They aren't really racist reactions, we have these reactions regardless of skin color. And its just a matter of becoming familiar with that which is different, knowledge replaces ignorance and fear.

That instinct, if we're going to term it a "prejudice", wouldn't be something you'd blame a person for, but it's still racist.

How can it be racist when a black man has fear of walking in an alley occupied by other black men?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I said it before in this thread-Oprah recognized the church for what it was and left, I wish Obama would have done the same a year ago when these sermons first hit the news, giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was being truthful when he said he wasn't aware of the comments. Instead he didn't, and he's made excuses and dodges about the church, which I find unfortunate and diminish him as a candidate in my eyes.

I still see a problem with picking your presidential candidate based on the church they are a member of. Of course, if it were a KKK church I would see an exception. This isn't like that though. Obama is obviously drawn to this type of church for his spiritual needs or desires where Ohrah isn't. Again, I think it's personally reasonable to not find Reverend Wrights speech offensive as I and many do not. It doesn't mean we are racists.

[Imran Siddiqui]

How can it be racist when a black man has fear of walking in an alley occupied by other black men?

Societal norms has declared a bunch of black men standing around on a corner is scary. Those societal norms have been, of course, based on the ideal that black men are violent, thuggish, etc. Black people are not immune to these societal norms, even though they push through them.

[Kidlicious]

Black people judge other black people on how they look and act. Some of my black friends seem to be more prejudice against certain black people than I am.

[Wezil]

Can a friendly mod please rename this thread to reflect the actual topic?

[Kidlicious]

Oh, I heard that Hillary has no path to the presidency, but Bill said she won't quite. So she's going to ruin it for the whole party. What's up with that?

[Kidlicious]

dp

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hillary Clinton doesn't give up. Her tenaciousness is well known.

[Wezil]

We need AllieCove's picture of the cat hanging from a rope...