Primary Thread 3: Race to Denver

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Oerdin
All because McCain dared to try to get bribe money out of politics.

As if people really believed he would really do it.

[Impaler[WrG]]

The only chance of that is if the race isn't decided until the convention, with a clear impasse over Michigan/Florida, and with a narrow Clinton lead in superdelegates. Then, the DNC basically steps in and forces Obama to run as VP. But even under those circumstances, I think that Obama would rather concede the race than run as VP to Clinton. The same, obviously, applies to a Obama - Clinton ticket.

I agree the VP slot is cursed, if the ticket wins the VP will be sidelined for 4-8 years (the two certainly dislike each other enough by now for that to be the expected result). If the ticket loses some of the loser stench rubes off on the VP as well.

If Obama doesn't get the nomination he should decline the VP slot and state in no uncertain terms he will "be back" and direct his grass-roots juggernaut towards winning bullet-proof margins in Congress. He will of course endorse Hillary but campaign on behalf of the Dem Senate and House challengers as he did heavily in 2006. This builds his influence in the party and keeps his name in the public eye and can probably squeeze out an additional seat or two vs what the party would otherwise pick up. If Hillary loses or her administration proves unpopular (for example she starts a war with Iran) he can then go into the 2012 race with near the name recognition and base that Hillary had this time.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Alexander: Besides the fact that McCain is defeating a Mormon in the GOP primary is their any reason Mormons like him less/hate him more then other conservatives?

McCain-Fiengold seems to have helped a little, though I certainly think their is more that needs to be done. A far greater effect has come from the Dean-phenomenon of massive small donations over the internet, this funding source has simply exploded and looks to become the new foundation for the Democrats who have reversed the long term trends of being behind in money with it. If this keeps up look for the Republicans to change their turn on public-financing.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
If Hillary loses or her administration proves unpopular (for example she starts a war with Iran) he can then go into the 2012 race with near the name recognition and base that Hillary had this time.

Only the former. If a Hillary administration screws up, she'll still run in 2012 (there's some biiiig ego there), and it's been a very long time (1884?) since a party failed to nominate a sitting president for a second term.

Here's what I'd like to see if there's no clear winner this spring: Obama enters the convention with more delegates and more popular votes. The superdelegates basically have to go for him or risk tearing the party in two. Hillary has to be thrown a very, very serious consolation prize. I can think of two:

1) Senate Majority Leader (getting rid of that ineffectual f*ckwit Reid), or
2) The next open Supreme Court seat (for which she would be no less qualified than Clarence Thomas).

Or maybe Hillary gets #1, Bill gets #2. I could see it, and it just might make everyone happy enough.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Alexander I


As if people really believed he would really do it.

We all knew the special interests and the Republican leadership would conspire to kill reform but at least he improved the situation.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Alexander: Besides the fact that McCain is defeating a Mormon in the GOP primary is their any reason Mormons like him less/hate him more then other conservatives?

Yes. We wouldn't mind so much that McCain was defeating Romney if McCain were a viable alternative for us. But we dislike him for a myriad of reasons.

Reasons Mormon Conservatives dislike Senator McCain:

1. McCain doesn't care about our values, and disagrees with many of our political positions. He's not truly a conservative. Why should Mormons back him?
2. He's disingenuous, despite all the "straight-talk." It's bad enough not to share our conservative values, but to pretend just so that we'll vote for him? Ugh!
3. The underhanded, oft-denied "team-up" with Mike Huckabee. That just reeks of treachery.
4. The threat of our specific views being marginalized. We want to have our voices heard as much as anyone else. Why would he listen to us if he doesn't think he needs our support any more?
5. There's always the suspicion that deep down, McCain's an "anti-Mormon." We know his mother sure is. Blacks wouldn't vote for a racist, why should we vote for someone who hates members of our faith?
6. His character. I know he's got the "honor" reputation going, but Mormons can't get past certain things: his foul sailor mouth and his temper tantrums. That really turns us off, especially when you compare McCain with our own LDS "presidential" ideal: Gordon B. Hinckley.
7. Finally, yes, the Romney thing. It does irk us. The way McCain tells Romney things like "I am the expert on the things you say" really makes our blood boil, and the smugness he exhibits after slamming him makes us even madder.

Personally, I consider myself a moderate, and fairly liberal for a Mormon. I've been an Independent voter for 8 years, and just registered GOP in order to vote Romney in the primary. But aside from the reasons above which are fairly common for many conservative Mormons, I dislike one other attribute of McCain: false advertising.

His commercial: As a prisoner-of-war (1967-1973), John McCain was inspired by the example of President Ronald Reagan. "I enlisted as a foot soldier in the Reagan Revolution!"

What a load of crap! He was inspired by Pres. Reagan in the '60s? When Reagan was just barely switching over from the Democrats? And if I'm not very much mistaken, Reagan became President in 1981, not 1967! It's misleading, and it irritates me.

Now I don't think I'm necessarily liberal enough to become a "suicide voter" for Hillary, (not yet at least, I should say she has yet to win me over) but my co-religionist Glenn Beck is. A Republican candidate should know he's in trouble if he makes Mormons want to vote Democrat. Regardless, I won't ever be voting for John McCain. I'm not saying that others should share my specific views or agree with them, but I hope this helps you understand a little more where we're coming from.

So, pardon the tirade, but I thought you deserved a detailed answer.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The only real hope for change is that not only does the right Democrat win the White House but also that they pick up a filibuster proof majority in Congress. Obama has said he wants to repeal the give away to credit card companies which virtually outlawed bankruptcy in America, create universal health care, replace Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy with targeted tax cuts for the middle class, massively cut back on farm subsidies & corporate welfare (basically making farm subsidies mostly go to family farms instead of corporate farms), push for a stronger McCain-Feingold law to eliminate money in politics and move towards public funding, and actually eliminate the wasteful and corrupt no bid contracts.

With a $3.1 trillion budget (remember Clinton's last budget was just $1.9 trillion) there is a HUUUUGGGGGGEEEEEE amount of fat and corporate give aways which can be trimmed from the Federal budget in order to pay for things like universal health care. It's just a matter of using it to help people instead of Haliburton.

You think that even with a filibuster proof majority in Congress, there would be ANY motion on cutting back farm subsidies? A LOT of those Senators have an interest in keeping those subsidies. That's why they still exist. Corporate Welfare isn't going anywhere either (besides people are only against corporate welfare if they don't like the corporation).

Oh, and Obama's health plan isn't "universal".

Here's what I'd like to see if there's no clear winner this spring: Obama enters the convention with more delegates and more popular votes. The superdelegates basically have to go for him or risk tearing the party in two. Hillary has to be thrown a very, very serious consolation prize. I can think of two:

1) Senate Majority Leader (getting rid of that ineffectual f*ckwit Reid), or
2) The next open Supreme Court seat (for which she would be no less qualified than Clarence Thomas).

Clinton as Supreme Court justice would just completely blow the minds of the far right. That'd be utterly delicious.

Though if Clinton does end up winning, I can see offering Obama the Senate Majority Leader spot. He's young enough that running again for President is something that is feasible (it isn't for Clinton, who is 60).

[Ramo]

If a Hillary administration screws up, she'll still run in 2012 (there's some biiiig ego there), and it's been a very long time (1884?) since a party failed to nominate a sitting president for a second term.

1968

[DinoDoc]

I thought this should go here since it is a campaign vid:

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ramo
1968

But he volunteered to not to run. I think he was referring to when the President runs and the party rejects him/her.

[Ramo]

He ran in the NH primary and almost lost to Gene McCarthy, then dropped out.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, but still different .

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Now things get a bit interesting. Obama has the edge in the upcoming Feb 12 primaries, but I don't think there is any way that Clinton loses Texas in early March (the sizable Latino population).

Do think racism among Hispanics toward blacks could be one factor? Or no?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ramo


1968

LBJ didn't run again. He didn't run in the primaries and lose.

edit: Ex-Imraned!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by MrFun
Do think racism among Hispanics toward blacks could be one factor? Or no?

That's probably a decent part of it (also why Asians went heavily for Clinton). It may also be that President Clinton was good for Hispanics and they don't know what Obama will actually do for them.