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  • #91
    Originally posted by Asher

    The key is original idea. Please read properly before making snarky comments, otherwise it backfires just like this.

    Do you think the iPod was an original idea?
    The iTMS an original idea?
    The iPhone an original idea?
    Multi-touch an original idea?
    MacBooks an original idea?
    MacBook Air an original idea?

    The answer is "no", across the board.
    Nope, actually you've got me wrong. The key is "innovative ideas that are wowing the market", all of which you've kindly named for me in that list above and saved me the trouble. Original ideas by themselves are nothing without marketing, as the (regrettable) example of Douglas Engelbart shows.

    So obviously you don't have newsflow problems if you're able to come up with that list on your own. Seems like we just have a disagreement about what's really important: pure originality on its own, or marketable innovation.
    "lol internet" ~ AAHZ

    Comment

    • #92
      So what then for Yahoo? I guess the owners could cash in now and walk away with a big paycheck. But I wouldn't envy the employees, who face the prospect of Microsoft's annual 10% employee efficiency pare-downs.
      "lol internet" ~ AAHZ

      Comment

      • #93
        AC pwning Asher

        I thought the original owners of Yahoo! already cashed out? Maybe i'm confused.
        <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
        I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

        Comment

        • #94
          Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
          Nope, actually you've got me wrong. The key is "innovative ideas that are wowing the market", all of which you've kindly named for me in that list above and saved me the trouble. Original ideas by themselves are nothing without marketing, as the (regrettable) example of Douglas Engelbart shows.

          So obviously you don't have newsflow problems if you're able to come up with that list on your own. Seems like we just have a disagreement about what's really important: pure originality on its own, or marketable innovation.
          No, what we have a disagreement on is you not paying attention to the subject matter. On this very site, I've mentioned many times that I think Apple has a good track record of taking existing ideas and improving on them.

          The key -- which I think I bolded repeatedly -- is the claim Agathon made about ORIGINAL IDEA. This was NOT a debate about who is making hot products that wow the marketplace, it was a debate about who comes up with ORIGINAL IDEAs.

          You then miscontrued my statement to make it seem like I said Apple had no "innovative hot products wowing the marketplace", which is not only something I've never said, it's in direct contrast to statements I have said.

          I even clarified this explicitly and you still do not seem to comprehend. One more time: the statement was in direct response to Agathon's quote about ORIGINAL IDEAs. This does not constitute me saying only original ideas are important, it is simply the point of contention of the discussoin!
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

          Comment

          • #95
            AFAIK, Filo is still at 5% while Yang is at 4% -- i.e., a couple billion dollars apiece.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

            Comment

            • #96
              Originally posted by snoopy369
              AC pwning Asher

              I thought the original owners of Yahoo! already cashed out? Maybe i'm confused.
              How the hell did AC own me when AC didn't understand WTF was being said?

              to both of you for reading comprehension issues.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment

              • #97
                I had a 1.5hr meeting yesterday with people who knew about this. Yahoo stock is up ~50% today.

                @ their not telling me about it
                THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
                AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

                Comment

                • #98
                  Because AC has a better understanding of the important element of the issue than you... I could come up with a million original ideas right now, but only 0.01% would be feasible; and I would implement 0.00% of them. Implementation and marketability are key elements of an original idea.

                  I'm not trying to argue Aga's side here, MS has plenty of original ideas; but some of the ones of Apple's you listed qualify in my mind as original ideas, regardless of whether someone else made something similar or not prior.
                  <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                  I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

                  Comment

                  • #99
                    Originally posted by snoopy369
                    Because AC has a better understanding of the important element of the issue than you...
                    You still don't get it? The issue was Agathon's claim about original ideas.

                    The issue was never "which is more important".

                    The fact is, Apple has very few original ideas. Especially recently.

                    If you think that it's more important to make products consumers actually like -- I agree with you, it's just not relevant to the point I was making.

                    Oi!

                    but some of the ones of Apple's you listed qualify in my mind as original ideas, regardless of whether someone else made something similar or not prior.
                    Then I strongly suggest you consult the dictionary about the definition of "original".
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment

                    • #100
                      As much as I hate to agree with Asher when he's in rant mode...

                      quote:
                      but some of the ones of Apple's you listed qualify in my mind as original ideas, regardless of whether someone else made something similar or not prior.

                      Then I strongly suggest you consult the dictionary about the definition of "original".
                      I have to agree with him. Please consult the dictionary about the definition of "original".
                      B♭3

                      Comment

                      • #101
                        I don't dispute the 'original' definition, I dispute 'idea' ... I consider marketing and implementation to be essential elements of 'idea'. See IBM's recent commercials

                        Taking a coffeemaker and marketing it as an iced tea maker (for one example) is a very original idea, for example, even if the actual maker is literally a Mr. Coffee maker with a different color plastic...
                        <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                        I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

                        Comment

                        • #102
                          Originally posted by snoopy369
                          I don't dispute the 'original' definition, I dispute 'idea' ... I consider marketing and implementation to be essential elements of 'idea'. See IBM's recent commercials

                          Taking a coffeemaker and marketing it as an iced tea maker (for one example) is a very original idea, for example, even if the actual maker is literally a Mr. Coffee maker with a different color plastic...
                          Do you seriously heat your "iced tea"?

                          Well then, as long as you consider "original ideas" to be taking the same object and changing its colour, I can see why you think Apple has so many of them. They change colours and appearances without any reason to on a regular basis. THE INNOVATIONS NEVER END.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment

                          • #103
                            Asher, i'm glad you post here... you're always good for a laugh

                            And if you've never had fresh-brewed iced tea before, you're missing out ... i'd not drink that Arizona cr** if you paid me, and I'd probably prefer a prison term to Nestea...
                            <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                            I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

                            Comment

                            • #104
                              Originally posted by snoopy369
                              Asher, i'm glad you post here... you're always good for a laugh
                              Quoted for truth.

                              He always brings a much needed breath of entropy into the forum. Even better, he appears to be exothermic. You start with the verbal equivalent of a single cocoa bean, and he takes it and runs with it until you've got "Genocide By Chocolate"
                              "lol internet" ~ AAHZ

                              Comment

                              • #105
                                Originally posted by snoopy369
                                I don't dispute the 'original' definition, I dispute 'idea' ... I consider marketing and implementation to be essential elements of 'idea'. See IBM's recent commercials

                                Taking a coffeemaker and marketing it as an iced tea maker (for one example) is a very original idea, for example, even if the actual maker is literally a Mr. Coffee maker with a different color plastic...
                                I dispute that they're essential elements.

                                Taking a coffeemaker and marketing it as an iced tea maker isn't original in that it advances anything, and therefore it's not worthy of, say, a patent, nor should it go down in the history books as the "first" or the "originator".

                                It's only brilliant in the way that it's yet another means of parting fools from their money.
                                B♭3

                                Comment

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