Race, Intelligence, & Genetics or How James Watson pissed off a lot of people.

[Japher]

That quote is all twisted. "Widespread discrimination in the workplace agains job applicants", "percieved as 'sounding black'", "unconscious boases"... what? First, they aren't in the work place if they are interviewed. Second, it's 'callbacks' for interviews meaning that they had one interview, so the lack for a call back could have been based on another undefined prejudice or decision. Third, if it's unconscious how can it be perceived and interpreted in a prejudice manner?

IMO, that study is just another witch hunt aimed to find racism where there might not be any. This obvious as we know an Indian and a femi-nazi would only conduct such studie.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Japher
That quote is all twisted. "Widespread discrimination in the workplace agains job applicants", "percieved as 'sounding black'", "unconscious boases"... what? First, they aren't in the work place if they are interviewed. Second, it's 'callbacks' for interviews meaning that they had one interview, so the lack for a call back could have been based on another undefined prejudice or decision. Third, if it's unconscious how can it be perceived and interpreted in a prejudice manner?

IMO, that study is just another witch hunt aimed to find racism where there might not be any. This obvious as we know an Indian and a femi-nazi would only conduct such studie.

I don't really know how to respond to this, but you appear to be much more racist than I previously judged you.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Yes, and the person raised in the worse environment has less opportunity, because of it.

Which is why you better pack the problems at the roots,
by enforcing that schoolchildren in the united states are educated with the goal that they perceive all races as equal and by putting money into projects that try to get children out of the slums so that they can get a better education, and maybe having racial mixed classes in all schools (if possible [meaning that restrictions aimed at keep certain races out of certain schools have to be made illegal]).
Also finding out companies with racist hiring policies will help as you can put these managers/employees who make (conscious or subconscious) racist decisions into courses aimed at teaching them that all races are equal (in their abilities)

Quotas don´t solve this. The system that brought the racist managers of today into power will still keep producing racist managers in the next generation. So you will continue to have quotas in the next generation and that thereafter and so on.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Yes, and the person raised in the worse environment has less opportunity, because of it.

*blink blink* yes, that's exactly right. Which is why, if we want to defeat the race problem in America, we need to address the class problem in America. Rather than quotas to make sure there is equal representation, (which can have harmful effects, even if you discount them) we need to make sure that everyone has equal access to quality education, medication, therapy, parenting, etc. And this needs to be based not on race - but on economics.

[Patroklos]

Yes, and the person raised in the worse environment has less opportunity, because of it.

So how does your approach solve this? Getting the rewards without doing the work encourages people to become more skilled how?

[Japher]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I don't really know how to respond to this, but you appear to be much more racist than I previously judged you.

You don't think it odd that a study into why people don't get callbacks for interviews will base this phenomena on their name? What about their appearance? If you are going to identify racism then identify it, don't call a spade a heart.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
Which is why you better pack the problems at the roots,
by enforcing that schoolchildren in the united states are educated with the goal that they perceive all races as equal and by putting money into projects that try to get children out of the slums so that they can get a better education.

That's only part of the solution. That won't fix the problem alone.

Also finding out companies with racist hiring policies will help as you can put these managers/employees who make (conscious or subconscious) racist decisions into courses aimed at teaching them that all races are equal (in their abilities)

You can't pick out companies and employees like that.

Quotas don´t solve this. The school system that brought the racist managers of today into power will still keep producing racist managers in the next generation. So you will continue to have quotas in the next generation and that thereafter and so on.

Yes, they do solve it. They are the only thing that will. There's no problem with quotas being continued with future generations.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael
*blink blink* yes, that's exactly right. Which is why, if we want to defeat the race problem in America, we need to address the class problem in America. Rather than quotas to make sure there is equal representation, (which can have harmful effects, even if you discount them) we need to make sure that everyone has equal access to quality education, medication, therapy, parenting, etc. And this needs to be based not on race - but on economics.

You still won't have equal opportunity and equal outcomes. And they are still the same thing.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos


So how does your approach solve this? Getting the rewards without doing the work encourages people to become more skilled how?

It gives people hope. There's very little incentive to obtain skills if there isn't much chance to use them in the workplace.

[Patroklos]

we need to make sure that everyone has equal access to quality education, medication, therapy, parenting, etc.

FIXED, for reletive importance.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Kidicious

That's only part of the solution. That won't fix the problem alone.

You can't pick out companies and employees like that.


Yes, they do solve it. They are the only thing that will. There's no problem with quotas being continued with future generations.

Honestly,
this everything sounds to me like a doctor who gets a cancer patient that has cancerogenous pains
and just prescribes painkillers against the pains instead of administering a chemotherapy to combat the cancer because he thinks that the chemo therapy is too expensive and complicated and it cannot be 100% ensured that the chemo defeats the cancer.

Of course it is prescribes, not describes

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Kidicious
You still won't have equal opportunity and equal outcomes. And they are still the same thing.

*sigh* Can I assume that you're not actually going to provide real evidence as to why you believe quotas will solve the problem but the other solutions presented here won't? It's your opinion, nothing's going to change it, and you expect the force with which you express your opinion is going to change our minds? Right?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Japher
You don't think it odd that a study into why people don't get callbacks for interviews will base this phenomena on their name? What about their appearance? If you are going to identify racism then identify it, don't call a spade a heart.

Discriminating against people who have ethnic names is also racism.

[Patroklos]

It gives people hope. There's very little incentive to obtain skills if there isn't much chance to use them in the workplace.

Which is wrong. If you have the skills you will get hired, money trumped race in the US a long time ago. Sure there are some racist employers out there, but they are few and far between these days. These days when skilled labor is at a premium, it is very rare an employer has to make the choice between two equally qualified applicants anyways.

It is simple, pay attention in school, make money.

You seem to just want to stick to the white boys and are masking it as trying to "help" people. You initial example speaks for itself.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael
*sigh* Can I assume that you're not actually going to provide real evidence as to why you believe quotas will solve the problem but the other solutions presented here won't? It's your opinion, nothing's going to change it, and you expect the force with which you express your opinion is going to change our minds? Right?

The problem that you see can't be solved. The problem that I see you don't want to solve. Quotas solve the problem that I see by giving jobs to minorities and women. You have no real solution for that. I don't know what else to tell you.