Race, Intelligence, & Genetics or How James Watson pissed off a lot of people.

[Lorizael]

Irrelevant question - equal opportunity does not exist.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Agathon


I understand perfectly well that you don't know what you are talking about and are trying to hide it. As usual...

Nobody has disputed that there are separate genetic lineages, just that these in no way correspond to anything that could be called a race. If you have facts that say otherwise, pony up. If not, then STFU.

I've just shown that self-identified race correllates strongly with genes...talk your way out of that one.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Why do white males consistently end up on top then?

Racial discfriminaton and discrimantion based on gender does exist.

But 2 wrongs doesn´t make 1 right.

If by introducing race quotas (or gender quotas) you make it easier for people of the right race/gender to get into a job, even if their abilities are worse than those of applicants of the "wrong" race/gender (and they get the job despite their worsse abilites),
than it is an equal injustice as if someone hires less people of the "wrong" race/gender because he doesn´t like thois race/gender or sees the race/gender as less capable.

Race quotas that are set by the state are state prescribed dicriminations, in contrast to the disciminations based on personal preference that would be sometimes made by decision makers in companies.

As Oerdin said, opportunities should be given totally color (and gender) blind, based on abilities alone. Everything else would just be unfair towards a gender or race.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Irrelevant question - equal opportunity does not exist.

Please answer the question.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Nobody has disputed that there are separate genetic lineages, just that these in no way correspond to anything that could be called a race.

All you have to do is redefine race away from a socially constructed phenomenon to a genetically constructed one. That neatly avoids all the pesky edge cases the socially constructed definition has.

Agathon probably wants to define races as clear, distinct groups with no overlap so he can point at the exceptions and say "Look! See! Race doesn't exist!"

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
If by introducing race quotas (or gender quotas) you make it easier for people of the right race/gender to get into a job, even if their abilities are worse than those of applicants of the "wrong" race/gender (and they get the job despite their worsse abilites),
than it is an equal injustice as if someone hires less people of the "wrong" race/gender because he doesn´t like thois race/gender or sees the race/gender as less capable.

Equal injustice? You've got to be nuts! You call a situation where each race has equal represtentation in the workplace an equal injustice to a dominant race hiring mostly itself instead of minorities? That's a very strange sense of justice you've got there.

As Oerdin said, opportunities should be given totally color (and gender) blind, based on abilities alone. Everything else would just be unfair towards a gender or race.

And everyone should have a million dollars and no one should fight anymore.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Please answer the question.

Because equal opportunity does not exist. Because discrimination does exist. Because of the different environments in which members of different races are raised. Duh.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Because of the different environment in which members of different races are raised. Duh.

Explain.

[Kidlicious]

Lorizael,

We are discussing this within the context of AA aren't we? Or are you making me out to be saying something different?

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Equal injustice? You've got to be nuts! You call a situation where each race has equal represtentation in the workplace an equal injustice to a dominant race hiring mostly itself instead of minorities? That's a very strange sense of justice you've got there.

Yes,
from the standpoint of the employee who didn´t get hired although he did deserve it due to his abilities just because he belonged to the wrong race it doesn´t matter wether this was due to some state prescribed quotas or due to personal racial/gender preferences of those who were responsible for the hiring.
In both cases he will feel treated injustly (if he knows that people worse than himself got the job instead of himself).

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Lorizael,

We are discussing this within the context of AA aren't we? Or are you making me out to be saying something different?

Nevermind. I need to stop taking the bait. These discussions never go anywhere.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael


Nevermind. I need to stop taking the bait. These discussions never go anywhere.

Maybe you should try making yourself clear.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
Yes,
from the standpoint of the employee who didn´t get hired although he did deserve it due to his abilities just because he belonged to the wrong race it doesn´t matter wether this was due to some state prescribed quotas or due to personal racial/gender preferences of those who were responsible for the hiring.
In both cases he will feel treated injustly (if he knows that people worse than himself got the job instead of himself).

Is it an injustice because I can't kick a person I don't like in the balls? Justice doesn't depend on peoples feelings.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Is it an injustice because I can't kick a person I don't like in the balls? Justice doesn't depend on peoples feelings.

Justice for me is,
that I am treated according to my abilities and to the things I have done
and not to the fact that I am white, male and german (no matter if I am treated better or worse because of it)

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


Justice for me is,
that I am treated according to my abilities and to the things I have done
and not to the fact that I am white, male and german (no matter if I am treated better or worse because of it)

A white male never knows if he got the job because of his abilities. That doesn't seem to bother you.